The Beautiful Synergy of Concord Originals Music Docs

Host Candice Bloch interviews Sophia Dilley, the Executive Vice President of Concord Originals, about the art of creating music documentaries. They discuss the origins of Concord Originals, the film and TV division of legendary music company Concord, and get into various projects already out (“Stax: Soulsville USA,” “Let the Canary Sing - Cyndi Lauper,” etc.) and some upcoming projects still in work. The two chat about the emotional power of music, the importance of authentic storytelling, keeping a north star of a story’s “why,” and the collaborative nature of documentary filmmaking. Sophia shares insights on the joys and challenges of working with archival footage, engaging with artists and rights holders, and adapting to the streaming landscape and modern audiences. They also touch on upcoming projects, including a biopic about Robert Johnson, branching more into theater productions, and the future of storytelling in the music industry.

Learn more about Concord Originals and their projects here: https://concord.com/originals/

Transcript

Speaker 1
00:10-00:21
Welcome to Media Makers Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington, D.C. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind the screens, insight and inspiration.

Speaker 2
00:24-01:29
Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, Candice Block, and today we're talking all about music documentaries with executive Sophia Dilley. As the executive vice president of Concord Originals, Sophia launched the film and TV division of Concord, the legendary music company behind artists like Billie Holiday, Credence Clearwater Revival, and Rodgers and Hammerstein. Since 2021, she's led the charge on some truly remarkable projects, from the Emmy-nominated and Peabody award-winning docuseries Stacks, Soulsville, USA, to the documentary Cyndi Lauper, Let the Canary Sing, and the Billy Preston doc that just recently premiered at South by Southwest. She's not only telling the of iconic musicians, she's shaping the way we experience music history on screen. I'm thrilled to talk with her today about what it takes to bring these musical stories to life. Welcome to the show, Sophia. Thank you, Candice. Thanks for having me. So just to get right into it, can you talk about the birth of Concord Originals and give us some insights into its beginnings, like how you came to Concord and then how Concord Originals was born from that? Yes, of course. So

Speaker 3
01:30-03:49
a little over seven years ago. I came over to build out the film and TV division for them. And I think at the time, you know, Concord's gone through sort of a massive growth spurt in the last decade. And essentially, when I came over, I was looking more at Rodgers and Hammerstein, which they had just acquired via Imahem, which was a company that owned a company called Pop and Rodgers and Hammerstein. And so I was sort of tasked with looking at that catalog in particular, but also other artists and publishing that we had under the roof. And so it started with this sort of how do you look inside a music company and find other opportunities to sort of highlight champion artists, elevate these voices into different spaces. And as we started to dig deeper into particularly Rodgers and Hammerstein, I think we started to see that there were a lot more film and TV rights than anticipated, both legacy films that we owned, but also narratives that we could reimagine. And so that opened the doors for thinking in sort of a bigger way. And that combined with what I think is a surge of music companies in general, sort of entering the film and TV space, we found that there was a real opportunity in the market to launch a true division around building out these different properties. So in 2021, we launched Concord Originals with this view of looking across the entire catalog and supporting and creating new opportunities for all of these different copyrights, artists we represent, estates we work with. And I think in that period, Concord also added a number of different companies to its roster on the theater side. So in addition to Rodgers and Hammerstein, they went and acquired a company called Tams Whitmark, which was also a musical licensing house. They did a JV with Andrew Lloyd Webber and the musical company in Rugg, and they also acquired Samuel French. So all of a sudden, on the story side of things, Concord became home to a lot of legacy copyrights. And from there, we built out a small team, and we've been really strategic about how we're approaching building out a slate and also putting out stories into the market.

Speaker 2
03:51-04:15
Well, I've been able to see a few of them and they're great. So what do you think makes music such a compelling subject for documentary storytelling? Like music obviously evokes a lot of emotion. Is that a challenge sometimes to create a new emotional story arc or do you lean into that with each artist? Like, how does the music play in? You know, it's a fun, creative

Speaker 3
04:15-05:30
challenge, because I think on the one hand, music is universal, which makes it a great sort of area to focus on for story, because I think you can access so many different fans and new fans just by the virtue of it being something that as humans we experience equally and also can appreciate and whatever that magic sauce is when you hear a song that captivates you. I think that in itself, as an art form, makes it a ripe area to start for other avenues of, I hesitate to use the word exploitation, but in this case, in different formats, is really, I think, organic to the medium. That said, I do think that it's sort of where we start is like what's already pulling us in, but then what really is the story behind it. And I think when you get into sort of either the artist or the history behind a song or the history that's going on around and contextually when a song is sort of premiering into the marketplace, that's where you find the more exciting and juicy kind of what would hook you in as a film and TV viewer into what makes

Speaker 2
05:30-05:43
these things work on screen. Yeah. So how much framework do you like to begin with and how much is shaped with the interviews and the research and the archives that you come across? Well, I think we

Speaker 3
05:43-07:48
live in a really exciting time, especially in documentary. The storytelling bar is incredibly high. So I think now it's no longer, I think documentaries are viewed so frequently as sort of educational programming and they sort of used to follow a very clear talking head formula. And now with the advent of so many streamers entering the space, so many amazing filmmakers taking on the challenge of documentaries and really reinventing how you can tell these stories, we're now in a space where I think the challenge is more about how do each of us, when we are entering and kind of contributing to the conversation around a subject, how are we elevating that in a way that is going to captivate what is, you know, our viewers today are very short attention spans and really need to feel engaged to stay in, particularly for anything that's feature length or longer. So I think what that's done is it means that when we're coming into any sort of development conversation around what we're going to focus on when we're looking at a story is that it puts the impetus on the producing team, the creatives, the rights holders to all say, okay, what is at the core of this that makes the most interesting story, but also what's the why for why it needs to be told today and using those two kind of filters to guide the creative process and really ensure that there's a true North Star for why a project needs to exist at the beginning. And I think that it makes it harder, frankly. It's easier when you have a huge artist that already sort of demands that attention in the market. But I think it's still, no matter whether it's Taylor Swift or somebody that is maybe more niche, it's still on the filmmaking team and the creators to really think about what story is going to keep an audience engaged for this long. Yeah, it's nice to see that

Speaker 2
07:48-08:14
you're thinking about the why as well. Because I mean, just sort of doing a historical chronological like this was their career is not enough. And I like that some of the projects that you have, they do focus on other issues. So how do you balance folding in things like activism and things that are still relevant today as a thread that runs throughout besides just the music that

Speaker 3
08:14-10:04
was created? Well, I think that it varies from project to project. And I think it's in many ways on the filmmaker who we align with at the beginning, because that's such a critical part of the process, particularly in documentary, to really have somebody who has a vision for what parts and themes within the story are the most important to sort of pull on. Because as you touched on it already with documentary part of the format is discovery so you can't necessarily predict as you're going into the story and you're doing interviews what people are going to say how they're going to say things where you're going to connect certain dots but you can certainly and and what i think has been we've been so lucky with every filmmaker and boots on the ground producer we've worked with on on the docs we have out right now because i think at the very beginning They're coming in with this incredible dedication to the research and the story sort of components that I think make these things stand out. like Jamila Wignod on Stacks, I mean, she did an incredible amount of research before even diving into interviews so that when she was approaching the artist or a historian, she's asking questions from a point of view that's well-informed, that's also, I think, allowing her to build a story that becomes a lot more, I don't know, complex and deep for the viewer because it's sort of her curiosity is going to continue to guide how we go through the story. And obviously there's a lot of components. There's edits, there's more research. I think the other challenge all of us have in this space is like, you could continue to research and dive into these stories forever.

Speaker 4
10:04-10:08
And so it's like also putting the pencil down at some point is also hard.

Speaker 3
10:08-10:27
It's really about, you know, finding the way to connect those dots, but also giving freedom to filmmakers. So I think it really comes down to having great, great directors who come into these things with a perspective and a true sense of dedication to journalism.

Speaker 2
10:29-10:47
So, yeah, speaking of those directors, you have a lot of these documentaries directed by women. How important is it for you to have these films about women directed by women, sort of black stories told by black women? Like, what's the importance of having stories told under the creative vision and leadership of people that have connection to the subject?

Speaker 3
10:48-12:08
Well, number one, perspective really does matter. And I think it matters for authenticity, too, because particularly when you're talking about subjects that are in the case of Stacks, I mean, there's so much tension and so much within that story that's important for us to uncover that not having an authentic voice in Jamila and someone who could really dive into the sociopolitical racial tension. It just wouldn't have worked. And we didn't want to make that story. And I think we pride ourselves in being a champion of all voices. And we want our content to reflect the world we live in, which is a diverse, very interesting and full of different points of view world. So I think that is just sort of our inherent mantra. And I think then you see it reflected in the people that we work with and the work that we put out. And it is obviously really important to me personally that I'm championing voices from all different backgrounds, genders, identities, etc. So it informs how we look at things, but it's also about the story itself and ensuring that you're making sure you're coming into a story with that perspective and lens in mind.

Speaker 2
12:09-12:13
Yeah. How are you going about finding the different directors that you want to work with?

Speaker 3
12:14-12:50
It's a lot of networking and every project's different. I mean, some of them come to us and they already have a whole team in place and others. It comes from us really building it all in-house and finding the right partnerships. And this is such a relationship-driven business that we try to find ways to sort of seed and meet new people all the time. So we may be meeting someone now who's not working with us yet, but we're already in the back of our minds saying we really love this person's work and we think there's something in our universe that will make sense for them to work on. So we're sort of teeing up those

Speaker 2
12:51-12:58
relationships constantly. Just out of curiosity, how might putting together a music documentary, I know it's different, but how might it be similar to putting together like a record?

Speaker 3
12:59-13:01
Ooh, that's a good question. So I am a film and TV person.

Speaker 4
13:02-13:07
Do you have a musical background at all? I do not have a music background. So I'm not the best

Speaker 3
13:07-14:05
person to answer on the difference between the two processes. But I will say, I think just having now worked very closely with my music colleagues, I think the comparisons are that you are, They're both very collaborative. And I think you are bringing a lot of different voices. And in the case of music, it feels that it's more specific to technicality than it is when you're actually physically making an album and you're bringing in a drummer or you're bringing in a specific musician or songwriter. I think film can get incredibly complex, as you know, just because these things can take so many different people and it truly does take a village to put these things together so the the scope can often be a lot larger but but i do think it's still similar to how you know when creatively everybody coming together with a mission and and a vision for what they want something to be well

Speaker 2
14:06-14:29
getting back to the filmmaking side of stuff then which is kind of where we're you know most comfortable here as well when the archival footage in some of these like i'm thinking of stacks in particular it looks really great. Was there any processing or remastering or anything that you did to improve it? Or were you just like had the budget to get the highest qualities? Or like how does that come about? Like diving into some of the technical side of the archival footage?

Speaker 3
14:29-15:15
It's a very, yes, it's a good question. And I think that, and again, Stacks, all of the docs we've worked on have had really interesting archive histories. And it tends to be a combo, So like a lot of there was footage in the doc that we had digitized from our warehouses and vaults of archive we had. And then, of course, the team at HBO and the team that Jamila put together was incredibly skilled at building out and like collecting some of the most amazing archive. There was an amazing archivist named Inez. Inez did an incredible job pulling all of these pieces together and ensuring that there because I agree there's a smoothness.

Speaker 2
15:15-15:30
Yeah, I was actually like almost because of what we do here and I know about that. I've also spoken to like an archival producer on here as well. I found myself once or twice being like, wow, that footage looks really good. I was like, I wonder if they did anything.

Speaker 4
15:30-15:34
So I was like notes about to ask because, yeah, it was it was great.

Speaker 2
15:35-15:55
I mean, it's, but I also know that a lot of times with archives, there's a range of the quality that different productions can even afford. So sometimes, like, people often think film is not that great, but it's like really high quality, high sharp res, like, when you get the full format of it. So, yeah, I was just really curious about that.

Speaker 3
15:55-16:33
Yeah, when it exists and particularly when it's from an era where it was film, it does, if it's been stored well, it does tend to look really beautiful on screen. But sometimes you're not that lucky and it really does come down to how much was captured in certain eras and were we able to find it. I mean, that's the other challenge with these is that a lot of the stories we're telling are from decades and decades and decades ago. And it wasn't as easy to have your phone out and film something. So, you know, we're always in the challenge of like what exists, what footage exists and how do we make the best with what we have.

Speaker 2
16:34-16:45
So I guess does that sort of inform a little bit of if there's any choice to enhance a piece with like reenactments or animations or anything? Is some of that to do with not having footage?

Speaker 3
16:46-16:46
Yeah.

Speaker 2
16:47-16:49
Or just like a stylistic choice sometimes too?

Speaker 3
16:49-17:51
It's a combo. I mean, in the Billie Holiday documentary that we worked on, James Erskine, he was the director, he found himself looking at all this footage, but it was all black and white. And one of the amazing things that he was able to do was he hired a Brazilian artist, Marina Amaral, who it went and actually hand painted some of the footage so that we could actually see Billie Holiday in color, which was really special. So I think there's like it again becomes a filmmaker style question in terms of enhancements, animation, budget also weighs in into that decision. But I think wherever you can sort of push what's harder to digest for, again, a contemporary audience that's used to really high quality, really fast moving film making styles, you try to come up with ways to really stylistically improve what you're given. So I think every director faces that when they're looking at footage from decades ago.

Speaker 2
17:51-18:05
Keeping it interesting. Yeah. So I've noticed that some of these documentaries, they usually start with a list of a few names of like in association with and in association with. What's it like collaborating with other production companies on these?

Speaker 3
18:06-19:27
Well, I always love it because I think this is such a collaborative business. And every project, we've had such a great experience with our partners. And I think it just brings a couple of really wonderful things to the table when you're looking at the future of the project, which is you have so many different viewpoints that are weighing in creatively, which can be a nightmare to the filmmaker. But I think ultimately, at the end of the day, when everybody is coming into an equation to help make the best project you can, it tends to result in, you know, it's like having multiple editors on your work or multiple eyes on something can usually improve it. And that's with balance. But I find that the collaborative process and people working together, there's so many different challenges you face when you make film and television that you having people in the trenches with you to solve problems, having people who are weighing in on creative solutions to things, support financially for projects. It is always benefited by having a group of people. I think I always like to say I want to have a partner in the trenches with me. So, yeah, we tend to find like-minded production companies to work with. And that's certainly our goal.

Speaker 2
19:27-19:48
Well, that's great. And it sounds like you have that North Star of the Y as well, kind of shaping it. Does anything stick out? is do you have any experiences with you know maybe living artists or estates or rights holders or anything where they disagree with the direction that you're going with or like how do you how do you deal with all of that and like honoring the authenticity but also the collaboration with the

Speaker 3
19:48-21:29
creators of the documentary it's such a great question because i think inevitably in any creative scenario there are debates about how things and how story is going to be portrayed whether it's the order of story, whether it's parts of a story. To us, what's so critical is ensuring that rights holders and directors share the same vision. And that idea of the North Star really becomes critical to that dynamic because there's always going to be some piece that has to be worked through. But if everybody starts with the same intention, I think you can work through those things. And we do work through those things. And you're able to balance it because ultimately that trust between the filmmaker and whoever, whether it's an artist or an estate, feels the confidence that while they may not see the vision yet, that that vision will be there at the end because everybody knows that's sort of what we signed up to do. And I think, you know, it's also comes down to journalistic integrity. And we really care about that as a company. I think it's really important that the stories we put out are true and everyone's human and everyone has blemishes. And so I think being able to tell stories with an authentic perspective requires that you have both of those pieces. And we say that sort of at the beginning to everybody, whether it's in a state, a rights holder, a filmmaker. And if it turns out that that's not the right fit, we can move into a different direction and start on a different project. It's just it's because it's not worth going down a path where everyone doesn't share in that vision at the beginning.

Speaker 2
21:29-21:45
So you had some really great musical icons in some of your documentaries interviewed, you know, like even in the Cyndi Lauper one, you had Patti LaBelle, Boy George, Billy Porter. Can you provide some insight as to like what it's like to go about booking such big names to put into the documentaries?

Speaker 3
21:46-22:21
Well, I will say that there again, it's project by project. It tends to be, as you can imagine, anyone who's already a fan of an artist is more likely to raise their hand or engage in the process when our production teams or our directors reaching out. And it varies. I think a lot of times sometimes we're coming at it from the filmmaker really, you know, writing a passionate note to somebody saying, I would love for you to participate. Sometimes it comes from us having a relationship directly with an artist or a historian or somebody that we work with already to ask if they'll participate.

Speaker 4
22:22-22:25
You know, that's where that sort of village coming together to help.

Speaker 3
22:26-23:08
It's like everybody starts pulling on their relationships and it becomes a really exciting mix of people then. And oftentimes you find yourself looking at so many different interviews and having to cut ones that you don't want to. Because, you know, especially in the case, like, I honestly think we could have made a 12-hour piece on Stacks. And my colleague, Michelle Smith, who oversees all of Stacks' records internally, I mean, I know that when we started very early on, she was just like, we are going to have the longest list of people who want to participate, which is great. And you want, that's a good problem to have. Yeah, you should do a box set that's even longer.

Speaker 4
23:08-23:08
But yeah.

Speaker 3
23:09-23:18
I know, it feels like that's, you always wonder like, where should we put these afterwards? And it's also, I mean, I'm a visual artist as well,

Speaker 2
23:18-23:49
like a hands-on one. And it's a lot of times it's sort of like, you don't really finish projects, you just stop working on them. Because it's like you could always keep doing stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So I totally understand that. And I can imagine like, it's got to be difficult to take all this great, great content and try to whittle it into a story that's digestible. But with platforms now like Netflix, HBO, Paramount+, et cetera, in the mix, how does that shape deciding to do like a docuseries like Stacks versus a sort of documentary feature?

Speaker 3
23:49-24:48
So I think now more than ever, it's become a real question at the beginning of projects because the streamers are really the go-to for audience in the current market for watching this content. So you really have to think about when you're at the beginning of a project going, what's the life cycle of this going to be? Who's our ideal partner? I do think that it's prompted us certainly to have more conversations with streamers earlier in the process than we were previously. That's just a shift that's happened in the marketplace. I also think it's put a really interesting pressure on the beginning of films and shows. I've just personally noticed that I think that if you're if you're competing in an environment for eyeballs, it means that the first minute of your piece is so much more important than it was back when you could release a project theatrically and have sort of all these windows to gain momentum

Speaker 4
24:49-24:50
with an audience. I think now

Speaker 3
24:51-25:15
the pressure is really on if it's going to just live on streaming that somebody's going to click on it and stay in it. And it's hard because that's a real executive comment, not a filmmaker comment. So for me, as somebody who's sort of in between trying to mediate those two, it's become a lot more important to have those conversations. And certainly when we're giving notes to think about how we can better get you sucked into a story.

Speaker 4
25:16-25:17
And it's just, you know,

Speaker 3
25:17-25:25
it's stylistically an interesting challenge. You have to come up with a new creative way to hook people in. So that's how we look at it.

Speaker 2
25:25-26:01
Yeah, well, I mean, it is part of the process. Like, you know, you want people to see what you're making. So, you know, you got to deal with the audience as well. So Concord Originals isn't solely doing music documentaries. There's some other music focused remakes in the works and things like that. And you guys acquired RKO, the legendary film studio behind classic properties like King Kong, Citizen Kane, It Was a Wonderful Life and so much more, which secured you rights to thousands of film properties and titles. So how do you see like scripted and documentary content evolving together moving forward? And can you share about some of the projects that are coming up that are more narrative?

Speaker 3
26:02-26:29
Yes. So we're thrilled that we've acquired RKO. And I think it speaks to sort of our overall mission as a company that we are stewards of legacy IP. And we are dedicated to this ability to sort of reimagine and reinvent for a contemporary audience. And that goes across our entire catalog, whether it's plays, musicals, artists, publishing, films now that are in our library.

Speaker 4
26:30-26:31
You guys do it all.

Speaker 2
26:31-26:32
We're doing it all.

Speaker 3
26:33-28:30
And I think what it's meant is that when we're coming into these projects, that we're able to bring a lot of different pieces to the table. So we want to be working with our artists and musicians and songwriters in the film and TV space. So it may mean that we are opening up opportunities for people who are already on one other side of the company, creating music for film or TV and now bringing them to the actual film and TV we're developing in-house. Also, reimagining these films as stage properties is a big part of what we're going to be doing. So taking some of these legacy films and creating licensable versions for stage is a huge part of what we're going to be doing in the next couple of years. And that speaks to sort of the broader mandate under the theater team. And then I think on the other side, it shows that we're, I mean, we are, we're very collaborative. So we're, we're excited about the opportunities this opens for us to work with different kinds of creators. So I think, well, the door is open for other voices to enter into our world. And I think we were already in the scripted space with some of our musicals. We have a remake of The King and I at Paramount. We have a TV series reimagining of Rodgers and Hammerstein's Cinderella with Skydance and Nia Rican, Jennifer Lopez's production company. So we were working in these spaces and trying to find ways to bring plays or musicals that we had under the roof into film and TV. And then also finding ways to bring music in a new, completely non-biographical way into the medium. And now I think RKO enables us to sort of fast track that part. And I'm really excited. It's very early days as we just announced it, but it definitely is opening the horizons for us to be creating more opportunities for our catalog. Yeah. And it sounds like, as you said, you don't come

Speaker 2
28:30-28:40
from a musical background, but you do so much stuff with music now. I'm sure you've learned a lot about that world through this. Is it the same with theater and all these new avenues that you're just learning these whole new lanes?

Speaker 3
28:41-30:24
I had a little more theater education. I wasn't necessarily a musical theater kid growing up. I certainly, in the musical front, I've learned a lot about how those projects have come together and particularly how their rights work just by virtue of working with Sound of Music and King and I and South Pacific. It's been really a dream to look at the history of Rodgers and Hammerstein in particular and dive into all of these incredible longstanding musicals. But I think in terms of how I've looked across this and how our team is really diving into it, it's again the same thing we talked about at the beginning. It's all about stories and what's relevant today and why are we and how are we impacting culture with these. And I think it's easier from a film and TV perspective when you already have a story established than sort of creating it from scratch with music. But I think now that we've really done a deep dive is particularly in Samuel French, where we represent over 15,000 titles now. And actually the company just also acquired a Broadway licensing group, which brought another 8,000 plays and musicals to our remit. So we're, you know, we're never short of that kind of IP, but we have the ability to sort of see where those stories are working as well. Where are the markets that are licensing these plays over and over and over again? And do they warrant a bigger treatment in film or TV so that we can continue as partners on these works forever to be championing them and continuing to keep them in the zeitgeist?

Speaker 2
30:24-30:40
Yeah, I mean, it seems like it's an interesting challenge between like creating original stuff versus like redoing something in an original way to keep it exciting. But yeah, well, anyway, I know you also have like a Robert Johnson biopic coming up. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Maybe what's most exciting about that to you?

Speaker 3
30:41-32:07
Yeah, I mean, Robert Johnson, King of the Delta Blues, such an important and seminal artist for so many rock musicians in particular. I think we know over the years we've heard snippets that he was so inspirational for Mick Jagger and the Rolling Stones and I think Clapton. You know, there's a lot of people who grew up on Robert Johnson and really just embraced that musical style and how they've become rock stars. But I think that we as a team have been particularly fascinated with his journey as an artist, but also that his life was cut unbelievably short. And there's a lot of mythological elements around his story that have come up in the hoodoo and voodoo traditions. And so I think there's a lot of exploration into how do you tell his story in a way that's visually interesting and really kind of gets you into this time period. And we're working on that with Jesse Collins Entertainment. And we have this wonderful writer, Ridgway Wilson, who put together a great biopic treatment. And we're really, we can't say much more, but we're really excited about how the story is coming together and what we really have an ambition for in the marketplace.

Speaker 2
32:08-32:31
Well, it sounds like you guys are taking a bite out of every little avenue. Maybe soon you'll be doing like augmented reality where you walk in, experience concerts or something. I don't even know, but you got so much great stuff coming out soon and so much stuff that's already out. Can you tell listeners where they can see some of these documentaries and where we can learn more about Concord Originals and what upcoming projects you have?

Speaker 3
32:32-33:00
Yes, I'll give you just a quick overview of the few projects I have at the top of my brain to watch. So please check out the Stacked Souls for the USA on HBO. We also have our Cyndi Lauper, Let the Canary Sing on Paramount+. and if you're a Rodgers and Hammerstein super fan, we did film a 80th anniversary concert that's on PBS and Sky. If you're on Netflix, check out our Credence Clearwater revival live at the Royal Albert Hall.

Speaker 2
33:00-33:24
Awesome. Cool. Well, we will also put in the show notes places where people can go online to keep up on what you all are doing and thank you for making these amazing, really interesting and very well done documentaries. I mean, we, you know, I know I've seen a couple of them already and I'm eager to see what comes out next. And thank you so much for sharing more about how you put these together. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1
33:25-34:04
Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit wif.frankv.v.v. This podcast is produced by Sandra Abrams, Candice Block, Brandon Ferry, Tara Jabari, and Jerry Reinhart. and edited by Michelle Kim, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack, Audio, and Ed Saltzman. Subscribe to continue learning from more amazing Media Makers. Please visit MediaMakerSpotlight.com for more information. That's a wrap!