Filmmaker Chats Direct from EbertFest - Part 1: Susan Seidelman & David Fortune

In this episode, MediaMaker Spotlight producer Brandon Ferry sits down with two visionary directors whose films were screened at this year’s Ebertfest film festival held at the Virginia Theater in Champaign, Illinois. Brandon first speaks with trailblazing director of the 80s and 90s, Susan Seidelman, best known for directing the cult classic, DESPERATELY SEEKING SUSAN (rapturously received at Ebertfest), as well as the pilot and multiple episodes of SEX AND THE CITY, and the early-90’s Meryl Streep dark comedy, SHE-DEVIL. The conversation explores Susan’s four-decade career directing genre-blending films that reflect her passion for classic Hollywood storytelling, mixed with a playful New Wave spirit– informed by her years living in downtown NYC. Susan also touches upon her recently-released (not to mention sharp-witted) book, titled Desperately Seeking Something: A Memoir About Movies, Mothers, and Material Girls.

Next, Brandon has an insightful conversation with up-and-coming writer-director, David Fortune, whose moving feature film debut, COLOR BOOK was warmly received by Ebertfest’s audience. COLOR BOOK beautifully tells the story of a devoted single father (William Catlett) embarking on a journey through Metro Atlanta with his 11-year-old son with Down Syndrome (newcomer Jeremiah Daniels) to attend their first baseball game together. Recently named one of Variety's 10 Directors to Watch in 2025, David financed COLOR BOOK after winning AT&T and Tribeca Film Festival’s $1 million Untold Stories prize in 2024. David dives deep into his journey writing and directing his debut feature, the challenges he encountered, and the incredible success he has achieved getting his film financed, developed, and screened across the country at numerous film festivals. Check out these behind-the-scenes interviews, recorded on location, direct from the festival with producer Brandon!

Learn more about Ebertfest Film Festival: https://www.ebertfest.com/ 

Check out Susan Seidelman’s book: Desperately Seeking Something: A Memoir About Movies, Mothers, and Material Girls (which can be found wherever books are sold). https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250328229/desperatelyseekingsomething/ 

Watch the trailer for David Fortune’s award-winning debut film COLOR BOOK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=go9ZqJJq7f0

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Transcript

VO
00:09 - 00:21
Welcome to Media Makers Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington, D.C. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind the screens, insight and inspiration. 

Sandra Abrams
00:24 - 01:18
Welcome to Media Maker Spotlight. During our episode number 104 with Chaz Ebert, the wife of Pulitzer Prize winning film critic Roger Ebert, to discuss her book, How to Give Effect, she invited our booking producer, Brandon Ferry, to attend the annual film festival Ebert Fest. Ooh, the VIP all access pass to the film festival. Brandon had been instrumental in our podcast, landing the interview with the author and filmmaker. At the event in Champaign, Illinois, Brandon had a great time participating on panels and conducting several interviews with filmmakers. So we decided to offer our audience a two-part special featuring Brandon's live from Ebert Fest interviews on Media Maker Spotlight. Take it away, Brandon. 

Brandon Ferry
01:18 - 01:54
Excellent. Thank you, Sandra. is an exciting time to go to the film festival. Really excited to share my interviews as well. Part one is going to be focusing on my conversation with Susan Seidelman, who many listeners may know as the director of the cult classic Desperately Seeking Susan. In my second interview, really just the making of David Fortune's first film, Color Book, which is a really insightful and really fascinating human drama that he was able to finance through receiving the AT&T and Tribeca Film Festival $1 million grant. So very excited 

Sandra Abrams
01:54 - 02:02
to share those interviews with our listeners. Thanks, Brandon. And hopefully all of our audience will enjoy listening to this two-part special. 

Brandon Ferry
02:04 - 02:47
Hi, I am delighted to be joined today by director Susan Seidelman here at Eberfest. She had her premiere of her film 40 years after it was originally released in 1985. Desperately Seeking Susan, stars Rosanna Arquette, Madonna, Giancarlo Esposito, Laurie Metcalf, Will Patton, John Totoro, A True Murderer's Row, to say the least. So we're delayed to have you on the show today on Media Maker Spotlights here alongside Chaz Ebert and Ebertfest. Thank you so much, Susan. Thank you. Happy to be here. Yeah. So the names I just listed off from Desperately Seeking Susan, that's A True Murderer's Row. Did you know that something was special when you were on sets All those actors? 

Susan Seidelman
02:48 - 03:19
Yeah. Actually, there was one that you forgot that I'm going to add in, and that was Aidan Quinn. It was interesting because we were all starting our career at the same time. So a lot of these people who then became very well-known a few years later, this was really their first or second movie. It was Aidan's second movie. It was John DiToro's first movie, Giancarlo Esposito's first movie. You know, I feel fortunate to have worked with them right at the start of their careers. 

Brandon Ferry
03:19 - 03:41
Absolutely. Yeah. And I just have to ask, from when it premiered in 1985 to now here at Ebert Fest, seeing a play again 40 years later, you know, I'd say to new and returning audiences. Just from my perspective, there was a row of University of Illinois students right behind me in every single line, laughing along, thoroughly enjoying it. Just what was that like? 

Susan Seidelman
03:41 - 04:13
It's really gratifying for me to see young people who I know weren't even born when the film was made. You know, there's some people that have seen it or were there at the time in the 80s and are seeing it through new eyes, but are also seeing it through nostalgic eyes. But for the young people, they're just watching the story and the fact that they are enjoying it, the fact that they are laughing at some of those jokes all these years later. And also relating to the characters and the theme is pretty wonderful. 

Brandon Ferry
04:13 - 04:26
Absolutely. Yeah, I feel like the movie is, you know, in a great way, almost like an artifact of the 80s, just seeing it. But it's not dated in that sense either. So would you chalk that up to just the production design and set design is really popping? 

Susan Seidelman
04:27 - 05:01
Well, the style is very 80s, the fashion. And certainly it captures New York at that time. But I think the themes and the characters, the idea, you know, it's really a story about becoming the best version of yourself. It's a woman who's a bored housewife, but, you know, is really seeking another kind of life. She's seeking, you know, she wants to have an adventure. She wants to be the best version of herself. And I think that is a universal, timeless theme. I mean, we all want to be the bravest, most adventurous, coolest versions of ourselves. 

Brandon Ferry
05:01 - 05:15
And just speaking on New York too, just from your experience living on the Lower East Side back in the 70s, did that really influence just, you know, knowing how to make the movie itself feel really New York in flavor and just feel authentic in a sense too? 

Susan Seidelman
05:15 - 05:19
Yeah, well, what brought me to New York originally was I went to NYU Film School. 

Brandon Ferry
05:19 - 05:20
For grad school, correct? 

Susan Seidelman
05:20 - 05:59
Grad school. And the school was on 7th Street and 2nd Avenue. So it was right in the heart of the East Village. And so when I moved to New York, that's where I moved to. And I always like, you know, I think if I wasn't a filmmaker, I might have wanted to be a social anthropologist or something like that, because I'm fascinated by the way people live about, you know, how they dress, what they eat, what they like. So all those details. I tried to look at New York almost like it was like another civilization. And to feel like I had my finger on the pulse of what was going on at that time. 

Brandon Ferry
05:59 - 06:05
That was important to me. Yeah, just I feel like the film, the music, performance really just cross-pollinates in that city as well. 

Susan Seidelman
06:05 - 06:06
Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
06:06 - 06:29
And just kind of build off that too, we are talking today primarily about Desperately Seeking Susan, but you also directed the pilot episode of Sex and the City, notorious for being, you know, lack of a better term, New York City being a character in itself. Yeah. How would you say the difference of a New York set film, such as Desperately Seeking Susan, really evolved into, what, 1998 when that pilot episode came out? 

Susan Seidelman
06:30 - 06:38
Well, again, I mean, I'm a New Yorker. I was a New Yorker. Now I live in New Jersey, which is kind of funny because I used to make fun of New Jersey and a lot of- 

Brandon Ferry
06:38 - 06:39
In the movie, yeah. 

Susan Seidelman
06:39 - 08:15
Now I'm a Jersey girl. But it's been interesting to watch how New York evolves. When I first moved there, which was in the mid-1970s, New York was still in the midst of a bankruptcy crisis or just coming out of it. So the city was falling apart, but that was kind of great fun if you were a student or if you were a poor artist or, you know, because you could afford to live in the city. It wasn't very expensive. And you felt like downtown was like a big canvas. You know, that was the kind of start of graffiti art. So there was painting on the walls and there was a lot of very funky punk clubs or, you know, music venues. And then it started to get a little bit more. It wasn't gentrified yet, but it was starting to become a little cleaned up. In the 80s. So by the mid-80s, there's still some of that funkiness, but it's a little cleaner. And then coming back again and doing Sex and the City, I filmed that pilot episode in 1997. It was a different New York because New York was now a bit more expensive. It was definitely more gentrified. And I think that if you look at my first film, Smithereens, which is pretty funky, then Desperately Seeking Suicide, and then Sex and the City, you can kind of see a story about New York taking place there. In fact, I sometimes joke that the character of Ren, who was the protagonist in my first film, Smithy Reince, would probably have hated the world of sex in the city, you know? 

Brandon Ferry
08:15 - 08:17
Long of Gen Z and internet right now. 

Susan Seidelman
08:18 - 08:29
But, you know, the city does keep reinventing itself, just like the characters in my films. But that's what makes it kind of interesting, because you never know what it will be like a decade later. 

Brandon Ferry
08:30 - 08:50
Just want to let listeners know, your first film, the punk drama Smithereens, if they haven't seen it, check it out. It was the first American independent film to compete at Cannes, previous to Desperately Seeking Susan. But last question I just want to ask on Sex and the City 2, that pilot episode, and I'd say the subsequent episodes, really are a different beast of like, like Man on the Street interviews, 

Speaker 5
08:51 - 08:54
and like, I'd say kind of like characters 

Brandon Ferry
08:54 - 08:58
that are background characters. I think it's a really great highlight. Did you come up with that? 

Susan Seidelman
08:59 - 09:00
Well, talking to the camera, I did. 

Brandon Ferry
09:00 - 09:01
Okay, yeah. 

Susan Seidelman
09:01 - 09:35
That wasn't in the script. It was voiceover in the script. And I said, no, let's let Carrie and other characters, you know, talk directly to the audience. You know, bring them in, confide in them in a way. Yeah, if you look at the pilot episode and season one, it's a little grittier than it became in season six. And it's a little bit less about the brand, you know, the fashion or high fashion. Even if you look at the character of Carrie, she's not as glamorous. She has brown hair. 

Speaker 5
09:35 - 09:36
She doesn't have blonde hair. 

Susan Seidelman
09:36 - 09:42
You know, she looks a little bit more like a real writer who isn't getting paid a lot of money. 

Brandon Ferry
09:43 - 09:44
You know, one piece a week. 

Susan Seidelman
09:44 - 09:45
Absolutely. Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
09:46 - 10:06
Yeah. Yeah. And that said, your memoir, Desperately Seeking Something, a memoir about movies, mothers, and material girls, was released last summer. Would love to hear more since it's a very recent release too. Just, you know, living in New York influenced that. What did you learn, I guess, throughout the process of writing that you didn't expect before starting the memoir itself? 

Susan Seidelman
10:07 - 10:49
Well, you know what? I started it during the pandemic. I lived in New York for 43 years. And then right before the pandemic, it just so happened that I moved to the countryside of New Jersey. And then the pandemic happened. And so suddenly I was stuck in a new environment in the middle of farmland. You know, I was a city girl for so many years. And there was a pandemic. So I had a lot of time to kind of think about my life, my career. And also the real impetus was to, when I started out, there weren't too many women directing movies. I didn't even know when I, in the 1970s, there was only one woman I could think of directing narrative feature films, and that was Elaine May. 

Speaker 5
10:50 - 10:51
I had no role models. 

Susan Seidelman
10:51 - 11:59
I was going blind. There were some European women, though, but in America, very few because Hollywood was still such a boys club. So I kind of thought it might be interesting to kind of tell my story of how I got from there to here. But almost like the kind of book I would have wanted to read when I was 23, starting out making movies. You know, lessons learned, mistakes made. What I learned from those mistakes, because often I found that I learned more from making mistakes than from doing something successfully. Because when you do something and get a lot of accolades, you go, okay, I'm going to do this. There's a temptation to want to repeat yourself. But there's lots of ups and downs. I guess the one big takeaway thing I learned was the importance of tenacity. Whether your career is up, down, or everything in between, it's just sticking to it. You know, trying to have a vision about the kinds of movies you want to make, having a point of view, and then sticking to it, even though there's so many obstacles in your way. So that's kind of what the book is about. 

Brandon Ferry
11:59 - 12:24
That is great guidance, especially since there's so many great independent filmmakers here attending Ebertfest. Other ones showing their movies once again, maybe don't have distribution. So that's excellent, you know, just guidance, I think, for anybody within the business. But yeah, that said too, just being reunited with Rosanna Arquette here at Ebrick Fest. Have you guys done screenings of the film in the years past? No, it's been wonderful. 

Susan Seidelman
12:25 - 12:50
Because right now there's a few coming up because it's the 40th anniversary. I have not seen Rosanna in maybe 15 years. I mean, we made the movie 40 years ago. Maybe I saw her three times in those 40 years. But the last time was 15 years ago. So for me, it was a real treat. Sitting together and watching the movie up on such a big screen at such a beautiful theater. 

Brandon Ferry
12:50 - 13:03
Yeah. And also in 2023, the film was selected for preservation in the U.S. National Film Registry by the Library of Congress as being, quote, culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant. 

David Fortune
13:03 - 13:03
Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
13:03 - 13:15
So I feel like I hear the movie being called a cult classic, but I would push back. I feel like it does feel like a classic in itself, just how it really, I think, engages, as I mentioned, new audiences too. 

Susan Seidelman
13:15 - 13:42
I don't think it's cultish anymore. No. I think it's when you make something, you never know if it's going to pass the test of time. You can't predict that. And you can't say, oh, I'm going to make a movie that's going to still have an audience 40 years from now. You just have to go with your instinct. But you hope that if it's authentic and if it's honest in some way, that those are timeless features. So you hope that generations that weren't even born when the film was made will still relate to the characters. 

Brandon Ferry
13:42 - 13:44
Roberta's story, yes. 

Susan Seidelman
13:44 - 13:44
Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
13:45 - 13:52
Excellent. Well, that said, I also just want to ask, is there anything in the pipeline for you right now? Any projects you're working on? 

Susan Seidelman
13:52 - 14:47
I really enjoyed writing that memoir. And what I realized is that I enjoyed the writing process. So now I'm working on a book. It's not a memoir. It's just a book because, you know, there's nothing scarier than sitting by yourself looking at, you know, a blank computer screen and trying to figure out what you want to say. But I really enjoyed that process. And also, you know, the movie business has changed so much. You know, I'm now 72 years old and it's changed so much over the years. I hope to make another movie, but I don't need to. I've kind of done my thing. But I still, I'm a storyteller. So you don't need a lot of money to, you don't need a studio to finance you. You don't need to knock on doors and beg investors to help you make a movie. You can just sit at your computer and still tell a story. So that's what I'm doing right now. 

Brandon Ferry
14:47 - 14:52
I really appreciate your shout out to independent filmmakers in the audience today during the 

Susan Seidelman
14:52 - 15:26
post-discussion screening. And for me, I think it's so interesting because there were so few women directing narrative films when I started out. And now there are so many more. And I want to hear their stories. I'm not retiring, but I do think it's time to pass on this baton. You know, you have a voice, not just women, but anyone outside of, you know, any outsider. Tell your story, you know. Storytelling is timeless. So there's still so many new stories to be told or reinterpretations of old stories. 

Brandon Ferry
15:27 - 15:28
Especially if it's based in New York, too. 

Susan Seidelman
15:29 - 15:29
Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
15:30 - 15:39
Well, we do like to wrap up by asking filmmakers, what was the last great thing you've seen? It doesn't have to be a new movie. It could be an old movie. Ebert Fest, outside of Ebert Fest. 

Susan Seidelman
15:39 - 15:54
Well, I do like to watch and see what the next generation of women are making. And so there's a movie. It came out, I guess, about two years ago. But I like the filmmaker. Her name is Emerald Fennell. 

Brandon Ferry
15:54 - 15:55
Oh, yes. 

Susan Seidelman
15:55 - 15:57
I really like Saltburn. 

Brandon Ferry
15:57 - 16:00
And I really like, I think it's called Promise Young Woman. Yes. 

Susan Seidelman
16:00 - 16:08
And I see, you know, she's perceptive. She's got a little bite to it, which I like. So I'm curious to see what she's going to do next. 

Brandon Ferry
16:08 - 16:24
Absolutely. I feel like it lines up very nicely with your work of being extremely stylish, but at the same time, too, you know, really has grit and just something very interesting to say. Yeah, I agree. Susan, thank you so much today for joining us. And thank you for speaking with me. I hope you enjoy the rest of Ebert Fest this week. 

Susan Seidelman
16:24 - 16:29
Oh, thank you. My pleasure. I had a great time. The screening was great. And that theater is amazing. 

Brandon Ferry
16:30 - 16:43
And I will say to the students behind me, the line that killed was, I believe it's when somebody asked Madonna's character, have you been dead? She says, no, I've just been in New Jersey. So they might have been New Yorkers, but they ate that line up completely. 

Susan Seidelman
16:43 - 16:44
So yeah, excellent. 

Brandon Ferry
16:44 - 17:08
Once again, thank you so much. And congrats on the screening. My pleasure. Thank you. I am joined here with David Fortune, the writer-director of the film Color Book, which just had its screening here at Ebert Fest. Welcome today, David. Yes. Hey, how are you doing? Doing great. The film had a really warm reception here in Champaign, Illinois at Ebert Fest. So congratulations on that and to your acting and filmmaking team. 

David Fortune
17:08 - 17:10
Oh, thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. 

Brandon Ferry
17:10 - 17:16
So as the film is still doing screenings, is going to be distributed hopefully soon. 

David Fortune
17:16 - 17:18
We'll get into that a little bit. 

Brandon Ferry
17:18 - 18:07
But yeah, just want to let everybody listening know the premise. Color Book is about a devoted single father played by William Catlitz, who adjusts to life after his wife's passing while raising his son with Down syndrome, portrayed by Jeremiah Alexander Daniels, playing the character of Mason. They embark on a journey through metro Atlanta to attend their first baseball game. Just want to start off with William Catlitz, who plays the father Lucky. William really just seems to be on the precipice of stardom. I think I spent a good part of the film I was heavily enjoying of like, I recognize him from both A Thousand to One with Tiano Taylor. And I think just was a year or two ago in the vampire ballerina flick, Abigail 2. So I just want to hear a little bit more about casting. Did you know about him being involved in these projects or was this a really cool find? 

David Fortune
18:07 - 19:23
So I knew about Will Catlett years ago when I was living in LA. I had a roommate and we was discussing like earlier film I was doing that was bad. But he did bring up this gentleman by the name of Will Catlett. And he was like, "Yo, I think he might be good for your film that you're writing." And he's on this television series called "Love Is." And I remember watching "Love Is" and being so moved by his performance and his texture with his facial expressions and how intimate he made moments feel. And so I always was drawn to Will Catlett early on, but it really wasn't until I watched this short film called "Black Boy's Joy" that is on Max. And I just saw Will Keckler as a father figure and seeing how he navigated issues with his son, but also with his father. You know, you saw his joy, you saw his pain, you saw his struggles, you saw his highs, his lows, you saw everything in between. And I felt like that was the type of performance I needed for Color Book because we experienced a father dealing with grief and still struggling to raise his son who has a disability, but still trying to find joyful moments in life. So I needed an actor who could pretty much hit, I'd say, all five tools. And I've seen that throughout Will Catlett's previous work, whether it was 1001, Black Boy Joy, or Love Is. 

Brandon Ferry
19:23 - 19:40
Definitely came off the screen exactly like that. So just a little curious too, as you are the writer of the film, I suppose were you just kind of breathing a sigh of relief, I suppose, at say the given table read, if there was one, just seeing chemistry between him as well as the son portrayed 

David Fortune
19:40 - 21:00
by Jeremiah Alexander Daniels? So we didn't even have a table read. We had a chemistry test. And so when we was trying to decide who would be the child actor that's going to play alongside Will Catlett, we brought in multiple child actors to engage with Will and just see who kind of naturally aligns with his parenting style, who naturally has a chemistry that feels honest and genuine. And Jeremiah just naturally just connected to Will and Will naturally connected to Jeremiah. And it wasn't until we was done with their chemistry read where I pulled Will to the side and I asked him, I was like, how do you feel about Jeremiah? You know, what do you think? And Will thought I was going to fire him. He was like, he thought I was pulling him into a room to fire him, but I was just asking him, you know, what's his thoughts on Jeremiah? And he looked me dead in my eye and said, that's my son. That's my son. And he was like, you're the director. You can make whatever choice you want to make. But I feel like this is my son. And I couldn't go against that, you know, because I knew that Will is the ultimate professional. And if he feels like this young man is his son, I trust him to make that decision that feels honest to him and honest for our team. So I decided to really give that to Will and give him the choice to choose which child actor he felt like was best for the role. 

Brandon Ferry
21:01 - 21:15
And I feel like chemistry in all films is important, but I think specifically this one, Because I do know during the Q&A, you had mentioned that, well, describing the film rather as a connection between two human beings and specifically between a black father and his son. 

David Fortune
21:15 - 21:15
Yes. 

Brandon Ferry
21:15 - 21:19
So I think that was exemplified excellently in the screening alone. 

David Fortune
21:19 - 21:42
Yeah, much love and respect to Will and Jeremiah. They both showed up. But also they had a way of just going off script and being true to each other. There wasn't a time where it felt forced. There wasn't never a time where they were like unaligned. They just blended so naturally. And we saw that in the chemistry read. And they only had one week in knowing each other before they went on set. 

Brandon Ferry
21:43 - 21:44
How many shooting days was there? 

David Fortune
21:44 - 22:02
We had 25. Okay. 25 shooting days. And so they had one week. And then we spent that week rehearsing a scene that was eventually cut out. So they had no rehearsal time to really get it down pack. But they just naturally have organic chemistry that felt natural and true. Wow. 

Brandon Ferry
22:02 - 22:11
Wow. So day one, like, you know, doing the dailies, are you just kind of sent back like, hey, this is going really well, you know, just as litmus test for the rest of the production? 

David Fortune
22:11 - 22:37
No, I didn't even look at the dailies. I was so busy just trying to survive production that I trusted my dailies is going to be there when it's there. I was just trusting my eye and just trusting the moment of what I was seeing on set. And I knew that if they're performing this way, it's going to resonate on screen. And so I didn't need dailies to tell me, is it going right? I saw it in the moments that they were interacting and their performance and connecting with each other. 

Brandon Ferry
22:38 - 22:58
So that's how it kind of went. And I would just like to hear a bit more about how, after the script was developed, how that just started turning into a movie. Because it was your producer who mentioned during today's Q&A that AT&T's Untold Stories program was involved. How that correlated with being the winner of that million-dollar grant to make the film. 

David Fortune
22:58 - 23:54
Yeah, so I first took the time to write the screenplay in the fall of 2022. After I got done with the screenplay, I did a budget. And usually that's kind of how I like to move is after I get done with the script, I say, all right, let's work to actually make this possible. And so I take the extra steps of doing the lookbook and to actually even doing a budget breakdown. It might be horrible, but it might not be the best budget in the world. But it's a step in process to actually making the movie and making it real. Somewhere to start. Exactly. Because if you can present a budget, you can present a lookbook and present a script, you have a starting place to work with. Right now, you know how much this movie is going to actually cost, you know, and now you can then recruit or bring on different producers who might be a good fit for what you're trying to do. And so that was the same way with Kaya. Kaya Klingman, who was the producer here on the panel, I presented it to her, gave her the longest email 

Speaker 5
23:54 - 23:55
in world history. 

David Fortune
23:55 - 24:42
Guinness, she'll actually look that up. And I sent her the lookbook, the treatment, and the screenplay. And one of the reasons why I decided to go for Kaya is because she did a short film called "Black Santa." And the film was set in a mall. And I knew if she could get a mall, she could get a whole public transportation system. And luckily she said, yes, she read the material and agreed. But right after we was accepted into the AT&T Untold Stories program to come and pitch for a million dollars. And we really had to not only just work on our pitch, but we had to create a pitch video that articulated what the style of the film was going to be, what potential actors or cast was going for, what the story is about. And we had to present that along with our pitch at the competition. 

Speaker 5
24:43 - 24:44
And we ended up winning it. 

David Fortune
24:45 - 24:55
They came back to us an hour later after we pitched, brought everybody back in my room and announced the winners. And they announced Colorbook as the winner of the 2023 Untold Stories program. 

Brandon Ferry
24:55 - 25:01
That's incredible. Yeah. Right after that, Kaya did mention that once selected, you won a production the next day. 

David Fortune
25:02 - 25:03
She won the production the next day. 

Brandon Ferry
25:03 - 25:03
Okay. 

David Fortune
25:03 - 25:26
I went to sleep. I was tired. I was like, I could catch up on a day of work tomorrow. I needed to get my break in. I needed to get my sleep in. And so I remember being so mentally exhausted. And I knew that if we're going to really lock in and do this film, I was like, at least give yourself just a day. Just a day to one, celebrate the moment and also recover. 

Speaker 5
25:26 - 25:30
And reorient too. Yeah, because it's going to be a whole new other journey. 

David Fortune
25:30 - 25:39
It was a journey just to do that competition. It felt like making that pitch video was a short film, you know, in itself. And now I'm going into a feature film. So, yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
25:39 - 25:44
Yeah. Production did kind of coincide with the strikes, if I'm not mistaken, correct? 

David Fortune
25:44 - 25:44
Yeah. 

Brandon Ferry
25:45 - 25:52
How daunting was that just realizing that they were not going to extend the deadline because you were given pretty much one year after production started, correct? 

David Fortune
25:53 - 26:17
Yeah. It was daunting. I know our team, we were, you know, slightly worried of like, can we pull this off? Is this even possible? But I come from the train of thought, look, if you're giving me too much to make a movie, I'm going to make it too much. If you give me a year, I'm going to make it in a year. If you give me five months to do it, I'm going to do it in five months. It's not about is it possible. It's just hard. But hard is still possible. 

Brandon Ferry
26:17 - 26:18
Sure. 

David Fortune
26:18 - 26:36
So for me, I just kind of rally the troops and just say, hey, this is what we're doing. And if it ever comes to a situation where we're in the red, then it's like we'll address it when we get there. But let's steer the ship forward and see what comes from it. 

Brandon Ferry
26:36 - 26:38
Great outlook. your troops, Atlanta troops, correct? 

David Fortune
26:39 - 26:50
Yeah. Yeah. So we did most of our casting in Atlanta and really hire local base talent. Same way when it came to crew. We really relied on Atlanta talent and crew and production team members. 

Brandon Ferry
26:51 - 26:56
Was there any specific goal, you know, when it came to just setting out to make it a true love letter to Atlanta? 

David Fortune
26:57 - 27:37
Yeah, that's definitely was a part of it. I mean, because we wanted to honor the production side as well, because there's a lot of productions that will shoot in Atlanta, but the stories are never really about Atlanta. And then you also have with those productions that they're bringing in majority of outside crew members. And we had outside crew members too. I wouldn't dare saying and lying that a color book did not have any members from other states or territories working on the productions, but we want a majority of our crew members to be from the city. And that's something we hold near and dear to our hearts. And that's something we take pride in. So we just really want to make a focus that not only the story is taking place in Atlanta, but it's truly made by Atlanta. 

Brandon Ferry
27:37 - 27:44
Were there like any specific, like, you know, little stories that people being from Atlanta may have helped to say location scouting for the movie or? 

David Fortune
27:44 - 27:58
I did work with the location scout in Atlanta and we work closely with, you know, finding locations that would best fit our story. But I'm also from Atlanta. So I knew the world in which we were trying to capture. 

Speaker 5
27:58 - 28:01
And I even know Marta, like I grew up taking Marta as a kid. 

David Fortune
28:01 - 28:37
So I knew the ins and arounds of how public transportation works in our city. So doing that location scout, it was sometimes a breather for me just to reconnect with the city because I moved out to Los Angeles for eight years and now I'm coming back. So it's like, OK, I know this landscape, but a few things have changed. But I would do them by myself just to get to know and reconnect with the space that raised me. And I thought that was important for me to first go out and see the spaces I'm trying to capture. And then go in and collaborate with the location scout who can help find two specific places that I was looking for that I couldn't find. 

Brandon Ferry
28:37 - 29:03
I also wanted to just really talk about the shots and the framing of it as well. Throughout the film, there are a number of close-ups of the two characters. Just, I think, really makes for a really strong, intimate, and moving portrait of this father and son. I found it really visually stunning too, just with being in Atlanta, but still kind of feeling a quiet vibrance in the city. I just love to hear more about, you know, your process of framing and shots of it. I feel like with that, coupled with the black and white, just made for a really 

David Fortune
29:04 - 29:24
visually sumptuous film. When it came to really doing shot design, I really pulled from still photography and photojournalism. I studied individuals like Gordon Parks, Gary May Weems, Chester Higgins, Saul Leiter, Vivian Meyer, just really studying how they capture moments and intimate connections between human beings. 

Speaker 5
29:25 - 29:26
And so I wasn't really watching a lot of film. 

David Fortune
29:27 - 30:35
I really was studying a lot of photography and photojournalism to help build the visual essence of the movie "Color Book." Initially, I really wanted most of the scenes to take place in wide shots. I really wasn't going for close-ups. But when we brought Will in, Will gave such emotional performances it felt like, man, he's going through something, but I'm feeling disconnected from him in this wide. It's asking me to come closer. And so for me, I just said, you know, let's just move in. Let's just move in and really capture what's actually happening here. Because right now I'm seeing something, but I'm not feeling anything. And I think that's what the close-ups provide is that you don't get a chance to just see a man grieving. You get to feel it. You get to experience it with him live. And I think that was like the purpose of our close-up. Because initially, I wanted to play it like an Ozu film, where we're just kind of wide. We're just experiencing the day-to-day going along. And we're settling with this patient rhythm of the movie. But when we brought Will in, he just changed the whole dynamic. And we wanted to go closer to feel his pain rather than just see it from a distance. 

Brandon Ferry
30:36 - 30:49
And speaking of grief, too, for these two characters, they are going through a loss. Grief is explored, but how did you really approach that when it came to still exploring grief, but still not shortchanging joy too? 

David Fortune
30:50 - 31:01
So with grief, I wanted to make sure that we don't talk about it. We experience it. Like Tammy, her name wasn't brought up. Lucky didn't talk about, hey, my wife is dead. I'm feeling this way. 

Brandon Ferry
31:01 - 31:05
It's like, let's not- The natural way people talk about it day to day. 

David Fortune
31:05 - 31:36
Yeah, let's actually put ourselves in his seat and experience it. And a lot of times grief is very silent. And I really want to explore that side of grief that we don't often acknowledge that it's the silent moments that are deadly. It's the silent moments where it's like we're really hurting. And so I really want to capture that silence that was coming from Lucky's grief. But I also want to acknowledge that, you know, while we're grieving, you can still, you know, live in joy for certain beats. Right. You can be stuck in the past, but still trying to move forward. 

Speaker 5
31:37 - 31:39
Yeah. And with that forwardness comes joy. 

David Fortune
31:40 - 32:20
and yes him and his son are grieving and dealing with the issues but they're still living life they still have moments in you know things that they're experiencing that requires laughter and that's okay you know i think sometimes we are afraid that we're not being sensitive to grief if we laugh or smile when i think that's totally opposite grief needs joy joy needs grief you know you can't understand one without the other. You know, even if you go to a funeral, some of the best and most powerful funerals when people laugh. So for me, if we're dealing with that, if we're dealing with the theme of grief, why shouldn't that be implemented when we're talking about incorporating joy? 

Brandon Ferry
32:20 - 32:31
And I really love just at the beginning of the film does really start off a moment like that, but I feel like it's not wallowing that grief, but it's still celebrating a given person with really some balloons. And I thought it was just a really beautiful way to open up the film. 

David Fortune
32:32 - 33:44
You know, because initially that scene was a funeral. And I remember writing it and hating it. It's like, ugh, it feels so conventional. It's like once you've seen one funeral scene, you've seen them all. And there was no other emotion I could feel. And I kind of tapped into my experience because I'm like, actually, I've never been to many funerals, but I've been to a lot of balloon releases. And with the balloon release, you get to share stories, you get to laugh, you get to engage with one another, you get to cry. It's a variety of emotions you get to experience in one setting versus a funeral where it's just like, it's just one tone, it's one layer. And so, and then the visuals of a balloon release versus a funeral. The balloon has such an innocent joy to it, right? That contrasts the emotion of what's happening when it comes to death. Rather than it's like you're seeing a coffin, you're seeing a dead body, you're seeing everybody in black versus a balloon release, you get so much complex emotions and feelings from the balloons to what people are wearing to even the location into an open part rather than being surrounded by tombstones. I don't know. I think just a balloon release was more fitting to the complex emotions we were trying to fill in that scene. 

Brandon Ferry
33:44 - 34:17
And just something else I love too, when it came to casting, I felt like a real standout was later in the film with Terry J. Vaughn, who in the film delivers a warm and really lived in performance as a diner waitress that Lucky and Mason do interact with towards the end of the film. Her listeners may recognize her from the Steve Harvey show, but also classic films from Friday to Don't Be a Menace and to even episodes of Issa Rae's Insecure on HBO. That said, do you also see that she has a bit of a history in directing, too? So just kind of curious how when you are directing your actors, would you have some directing experience? Like, what's that like? 

David Fortune
34:18 - 35:45
They're the greatest. They're absolutely phenomenal. Because when you're making directing choices, sometimes it may be hard for actors to understand. Hey, this is why I need you to go towards the window. Yes, I know the blocking does not feel natural going towards the window, but right now we're dealing with time. We're dealing with light. And I just need you to perform in this area. And I actually had that moment with Terry and she was so great about it. There's a scene where Mason, not to spoil it for anyone, but Mason hands her an item. And in that handing off, you know, they hug. But what I needed from her was I needed her to bring Mason in instead of going to Mason. But we couldn't do that simply because production design, lighting, where the staging and lights were set. It's like, OK, I need you to actually bring him to you. And I was like, Terry, I know this does not feel natural. I know naturally your first inclination is he gives you something on. Thank you. and you go over to him and give him a hug but i'm like hey the frame how it's set up with the production design and lights is there any way you could bring them to you and then she stopped and she said david i get you you don't have to worry about anything i got it wow you know and it makes my life so much easier because she understands not just the performance aspect but she understands 

Brandon Ferry
35:45 - 35:51
the world of production that's your own vision too yeah and so working with an actor who knows 

David Fortune
35:52 - 36:03
the struggles of directing and the challenges that you have to deal with time, logistics, and all that. And she was such a great sport about it. So I love working with actors who have an understanding of direction. 

Brandon Ferry
36:04 - 36:12
And when it comes to the film, just being in black and white, why that was a choice? Just love to hear just more about that specifically. 

David Fortune
36:12 - 37:02
The decision to shoot black and white was not based out of style, but more so based out of story. You know, this story is about a father and son relationship. and any visual or creative direction I'm going to take is going to be based around that connection between this adult male and this young black boy and what their relationship dynamics are. And to me, it was just the honest choice. You know, when I put in the black and white filter in my brain, all I could focus on was their relationship. You know, and then when I put it on the color filter in my brain, I was being distracted by everything around them that I was losing the focus that was between them. And so with black and white, you're not looking left or right, you're staring center. And that's kind of what I wanted the audience to do was stare center at 

Brandon Ferry
37:02 - 37:27
this relationship between Lucky and Mason. Wow. Just kind of next steps as I was looking up to see this screening, but would love to hear more about distribution. I know you said you had mentioned that you guys were pursuing an impact campaign and to really engage the community at the film was written for and created for as well. So I would just love to hear more about how that's going and potentially any theatrical avenues or deals you can speak about now freely. 

David Fortune
37:27 - 38:05
So we're still looking for distribution, but it's getting really good positive feedback. I think just shooting in black and white is a little bit more difficult and a risk for a lot of companies, but we're learning on this festival circuit that audiences aren't distracted by black and white. that is not an issue for them. They care about story. They care about connection. And if they're connecting with the film, then whether it's in black and white or color, it doesn't matter. And so that's just something we're learning as we're going on our festival circuit. But along with doing a festival circuit, we're planning an impact campaign. And it's been coming up organically. Organizations has been reaching out to us. 

Speaker 5
38:05 - 38:08
Wow. Yeah. And that speaks to the impact, quote unquote, 

David Fortune
38:09 - 38:18
that's been happening, you know, when it comes to the film and its connection to the community. So it's been grown organically and it feels very natural. 

Brandon Ferry
38:19 - 38:37
Excellent. I'm glad to hear that. I mean, as much as I enjoyed the film today and talking to a few people around me, I just love the idea of, you know, seeing the word of mouth on this project and also being able to talk about it, you know, amongst family and friends in the months to come, hopefully soon. But yeah, just would like to wrap up today asking you just as a director and a 

David Fortune
38:37 - 40:20
writer. What's the last great thing you've seen? The last great thing I've seen, I watched Sinners. Yeah. I watched Sinners. I'm so inspired by the work of Ryan Coogler. It's funny when making Colorbook, you know, I thought about Fruitvale Station a lot. And I studied Ryan's psyche as he was preparing for Fruitvale Station and working with the cast and crew and also shooting back in his hometown of Oakland. And I thought there was a lot of similarities of me working with the community of Atlanta and shooting back in my hometown and telling the story there. And Fruitvale Station was the first screenplay I ever read when I was trying to break into the industry and reading beat by beat and then watching the film afterwards to understand like how did the screen correlate to this feature film was beautiful to have early in my career. So I don't know, when watching Sinners, it brings back to those early days when I was just trying to learn how to make movies. And it brings me back now, you know, watching Ryan Coogler first feature and doing my first feature and looking at like, man, there's a lot of similarities there. And there's a lot of things that I could study and I could watch from him and hopefully implement into my career. I'm a fan of his work and I'm a fan of just not his work, but who he is as a human being. And I think that goes a longer ways than just being a great filmmaker. So that's something, when I think about "Sinners," yes, the film's amazing, the film's great. There's not much more I need to add that you can find online. But for me, I look at the filmmaker and who he is as a human being, and the way he treats his cast, the way he treats his crew, and how everybody responds to him. I think that is very admirable, and we should study that as well. 

Brandon Ferry
40:21 - 40:44
- I love to hear that, David, and also just how you've approached that and everything you've really mentioned with your crew, And just kind of seeing that love up there during today's Q&A amongst your crew, your cast, your producer. So just want to say congratulations on Color Book. Thank you. Can't wait to see more from you and also seeing that movie be distributed here in the months to come. Yes, we're claiming it. We're claiming it. All right. Well, thank you so much there, David, and look forward. 

VO
40:47 - 41:23
Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit wif.frankv.org. This podcast is created by Sandra Abrams, Candice Block, Brandon Ferry, Tara Jabari, and Jerry Reinhardt. And edited by Michelle Kim and Inez Perez. With audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio. Subscribe to continue learning from more amazing media makers. Please visit MediaMakerSpotlight.com for more information.