Stories that Reframe Aging and Celebrate Older Women

Documentary filmmaker Melissa Davey sits down with host Candice Bloch in this episode to discuss her filmmaking journey and her latest film, Climbing Into Life. The film is about the remarkable story of Dierdre Wolownick, an accomplished writer, artist and musician who got into rock climbing later in life and, at age 66, became the oldest woman to ascend Yosemite’s famed El Capitan. The two also talk about Melissa’s first feature, Beyond Sixty, and her goals of challenging stereotypes about women’s aging. Listen in to hear great advice about filmmaking and life, get inspired by Melissa’s personal story of finding filmmaking at age 65, and rethink your own possibilities for the years that lie ahead.

To learn more about Melissa and her films, visit: https://melissadavey.com/

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Transcript

00:01 - VO (Host)
Quiet on the set. 

00:07
All together Action. Welcome to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington DC. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind-the-screens insight and inspiration. 

00:24 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Thank you for joining us. I'm your host, candice Block, and today I'm chatting with documentary filmmaker Melissa Davey. At age 65, melissa retired from a lengthy corporate career to pursue her second act and dream of becoming a filmmaker. By late 2018, she completed her first feature, beyond 60, which screened at eight film festivals throughout North America, winning awards awards, and is now available on multiple streaming platforms. Melissa's second film, climbing Into Life, details the inspiring life story of Deirdre Wallenick, the oldest woman to ascend El Capitan. The film is currently making the rounds in film festivals and Melissa strives to remove stereotypes around women's aging and focuses her films on women in later years of their lives. Welcome to the show, melissa. Thank you, it's great to be here with you. 

01:10
So, as I mentioned in your intro, you began your own journey into filmmaking in your later years and I know you have an interesting story about your leap into this chapter of your life. Can you share with our listeners what brought you to make that decision to adjust course into the world of filmmaking? 

01:25 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Yeah, sure it's a little crazy. And I was in a corporate career for many, many years more than two decades and I was 65 years old, sitting at my desk and looking at the clock and looking at the calendar and realizing how long I'd been on this journey and really just it kind of hit me that time was going a little too quickly. It was passing by and I was starting to think about, well, what am I doing with the rest of my life? And I was sitting in a company that it was a big national company, but there was no ageism, so there was no forced out feeling or gee whiz, you're 65, it's time to go. It was more just me sitting there, realizing that I had hit that age. And so I started making lists of all the things I hadn't done in my life and then sitting back and saying, well, why didn't you, you know, why didn't you do those things? And some had very valid reasons as to why I didn't and I probably shouldn't. But there were a few that kept popping up to the top of the list and one of them was a fantasy of being a filmmaker. 

02:43
Since I was nine, I was interested in film, always have been, but never even considered the possibility of becoming a filmmaker, just like, wow, they're filmmakers, I'm not. Wouldn't that be cool to be like them? So I just let it go. So while I was doing this inventory of my life, I ended up down in DC at a congressional meeting, which was something that you know I went to regularly, talking about the work that I did within the Social Security world. That day it hit me that this was like Groundhog Day. You know, I've been coming down here forever and the meeting's always the same and there was that feeling of you know, why am I continuing to do this? You know why is this so frustrating and why do I want to continue to do it in my old age? So I left there early in the morning, came back up from DC to Philadelphia and, instead of going back to work, I took a detour that day, and I'm kind of famous for detours. 

03:54
And my detours have always led me somewhere interesting, but this one was remarkable, and it was. I hooked up with a friend who I hadn't seen in quite a while. And it was I hooked up with a friend who I hadn't seen in quite a while and she said okay, well, you need to go with me to pick up my daughter from school and we're going to drop her at a horse barn. So I was like, oh, that sounds perfect After the morning I just had. So we did that, drove up the dirt road in Chester County, pennsylvania, and she said you know, I think they're making a film over here. I come up here every day and it just looks like maybe they're making a film. And I looked and I was like, yeah, it looks that way. 

04:33
So we went up, dropped her off, turned around, stopped and I pulled up my iPhone because I had a feeling I knew who it was. And I told her that my friend was like how could you possibly? And I said well, look, we're in Chester County, pennsylvania. It's a spooky looking area. It's ripe for M Night Shyamalan and he lives here. So I thought, well, it could be him. 

04:57
So I typed in his name and up popped his website and up popped a picture of exactly where we were sitting at that moment and it said M Night Shyamalan making a micro-budget film in Chester County, Pennsylvania. I said well, that's it. And then on the phone was a little red button that said charity buzz. I didn't know what it was, so I hit the button and up pops his face and it said win a day on the set with M Night Shyamalan and all the proceeds would go to his education foundation, which we sat there on the side of time. So I was bidding and I kept bidding against a dentist in New Jersey who seemed to want it as badly as I did and, short story, I won the day on the set, meaning that all that I bet went to the Education Foundation. 

06:00
That was my justification for spending all that money. And within two weeks I was on the set with him. It was an eight to 10 hour day. I thought he was going to put me in a chair and I'd get to watch, but he had me behind the camera with him and he was so gracious and so open to discuss what he was doing, why he was doing it. He allowed me to ask questions. We hung out with the crew. It was awesome. 

06:30
And then something happened at lunch. We sat together at lunch and he said to me what do you do for work? Now, remember, this is a young guy who'd only been a filmmaker his entire life. So I'm trying to explain social security, disability, corporate insurance. And he kind of glazed over and I realized I'd lost him. And he looked at me and he said what do you really want to do? And I said, oh, I want your job. And he said well, you better hurry up. And it was like a three-second conversation and he was joking, I'm sure, but it hit me in the pit of my stomach because I'd already made the list and film was at the top. I'm having this glorious day on the set, just incredibly excited about everything that was going on and he said well, you better hurry up. So at that moment that was the catalyst. At that moment I said, well, if I'm ever going to try to make a film, I guess it better be soon. Yeah. 

07:34
I mean, if you're looking for a sign, getting told that specifically while on a set, that sounds amazing. 

07:42 - Candice Bloch (Host)
It was incredible. So late that night I drove home and I just kept thinking about well, I said to myself out loud, I'm going to make a film. And so then I was like, well, what am I going to make a film about? How am I going to do this? So I had all kinds of thoughts going through my head, walked into the house late at night and my husband knew how excited I was and he was like so how was it? And I said, John, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to make a film. So he was a little taken back. You know, but knows me and knows I get excited about things, so kind of just said, oh okay, it's great to have that support. It sounds like. 

08:31
And it just seemed the easiest thing would be a documentary because it would be helping to tell the story and that I felt comfortable with. I did that my whole life in my jobs. I was always telling stories around business and I've always been comfortable listening to stories and asking people questions about their stories. So I thought, well, this would be the way to go. And then, well, what would the subject be? And then the easiest thing was older women. That's me, I can easily tell my own story through other people, and at that moment I knew that there was a lack in the industry in film. 

09:20
In the industry in film about older women's stories. We hear stories pretty routinely about Oprah and Jane Fonda and all the celebrities that are out there, and they're wonderful stories. But I wondered at that moment, how do ordinary, everyday people like me connect with those stories? Do they connect with them to say, oh, I could do that too, or, gee, I'm just like them. Or do they see them as these wonderful celebrities and they just want to learn more about them? So I thought, well, maybe the everyday woman must have some great stories out there that would inspire others. And that's how I started my journey to Beyond 60. I gave a year's notice because I needed I had created the division of the company for my employer and I had to mentor somebody to take that over. 

10:11 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
So in that so that one wasn't a three minute transition. 

10:14 - Candice Bloch (Host)
No, no. But it gave me plenty of time to plan. How was I going to do this, how was I going to learn to become a filmmaker and actually see if I could at least get a film made? I didn't know what would happen to it afterwards, but I wanted to see if I could get it made, and that's how my journey started wanted to see if I could get it made, and that's how my journey started. 

10:41 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
That's awesome. Well, I've seen both of your films and they're great. I especially love the most recent one. We're going to talk a little bit more specifically about that soon. But you said like you dove into documentary because you thought it was kind of easy and something you already knew, you know. They always say like, write what you know or say stories that you know, but do you see sticking with documentaries going forward? Is that like something specifically that you want to stay in, or might you eventually venture into narrative or other styles? 

11:03 - Candice Bloch (Host)
You know, I feel like I have, I feel responsible for keeping women's voices going. So I will probably always do something related to older women's stories. But yes, I am thinking about, well, what if I jump out of the box and write a screenplay or do a narrative film, do whatever, maybe with an older woman as the protagonist, or whatever it might be. But yes, now that I feel more comfortable with my abilities to make films, I am very curious about other genres. 

11:42 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Okay, well, we'll keep our eyes peeled for that We'll definitely have to follow up and see how that's going. So you said that you had kind of that year of transition and trying to learn some things. Do you remember some of the education or resources that you first tapped into to try to take on this brand new world for yourself? 

12:03 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yes, being in business for as long as I was, and I built businesses and created businesses and built teams, large teams of people around me, so I was very used to that. So I was always very clear, and still am today, about what I don't know, and it's very easy for me to say I don't know, that I need to go get help with that. And that's how I created my teams in business. I brought on people smarter than I was in certain areas, so that we were all just fantastic when you put us all together. And so I knew, if I'm going to make a film, here are the 10 things, probably more than that, but I don't know. And how will I go about getting them? 

12:46
So the first thing I did and it was within days of making the decision was to reach out to one of the people that worked with M Night Shyamalan to say, look, I'm in the midst of making a big change and I need to know if you can hook me up with somebody that could talk with me about filmmaking. And she at that time was getting ready to leave her job and try something else and asked me to be her mentor. So I said, okay, I'll be your mentor if you help me figure out how I'm going to do this. She introduced me to her boyfriend now husband who was part owner in a production company in Philadelphia. She said okay, you can meet with him and he'll probably set you in the right direction. 

13:33
I had already come up with the idea for Beyond 60 and he loved it. He said let's go back to the partners and talk to them. They loved it. So almost immediately I had a production company that I brought on to help me start putting this together, and they were the ones that I learned about filming and sound and design and all of the editing, everything that goes with it. We were a team for almost three years that's how long it took, from the very beginning to the very end. So you reach out to those people that can bolster you and give you the information that you need. 

14:11 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Yeah, I mean that's wonderful advice for everything. As you said, it works in all avenues of life. If you don't know, say you don't know, Ask you know, someone could teach you. 

14:21
It's OK to not know everything. 

14:22
Exactly, and it's. It's better to admit that, because too many, too many people won't, and then they'll just produce something that's terrible or or lead somebody astray, because they want to pretend that they know what they're doing. Yeah, they want to pretend that they know what they're doing. Yeah. Since filmmaking, as you said, is like your second act and you have all this life experience beforehand, how do you think that decades of life experience kind of shaped your approach to finding and telling these specific stories? I mean, you kind of hinted at it already, but it's like you had that knowledge, some knowledge that did translate. So what kinds of things did? 

14:54
Absolutely. From the time that I was a small child I was very curious about people and stories always. I mean, I'd go to the movies back when it was 25 cents for a matinee on Saturday and the kids would all go without parents, because it was at a time when parents didn't worry about pedophiles lurking in the bushes and kids were more free to do what they wanted. So I was at the movies all the time. We moved a lot when I was a child different states, different cities and so I was always pushed into that position of going to find new connections and new people. So from an early age I was knocking on doors on the day that we moved in to say, hey, do you have any kids for me to play with? And I would very quickly create bonds with people and I remember just being so curious about their story, their parents' story, just listening. 

15:58
I've always known that I was a good listener and that parlayed me through work, all different types of work, in my lifetime. As long as you're able to listen and grab the story, you're going to be able to build what you need around that story so that others can understand it. So I've always had that. So I knew when I was going to do a documentary film that that would be the easy part for me. Forget the cameras and the lights and all that stuff that you need to know about, but just talking with people was easy for me. 

16:36
And an example when I started the outreach to find the nine women for Beyond 60, I spent the better part of that year interviewing people on the phone and I interviewed I don't know 80 plus women and kept coming back to these nine for whatever reason I could relate to their story. There was something about their story that was a piece of me as well. And the interesting thing was each one of those nine women knew that I was a newbie filmmaker, that I'd never done this before, and as soon as I said, will you be in the film, they automatically said yes. I said well, do you have any reservations? I was giving people a little bit of an out. If you're scared, if you think that I'm going to flub this up, let me know. But they said I'm very comfortable with you, I trust you, our conversations are wonderful, so I believe that you'll be able to tell my story the way I want it told. So that's. 

17:42
Yeah, a lifetime of building that establishing rapport? Yes, yeah, and I still love it today, going your way a little bit, which is amazing, but not because it's not hard earned or anything, but it just seems like it's what you are supposed to be doing. 

18:15
I believe that and I don't say that in a corny you know woo-woo way, but it is. In all my life there have been these detours that I have taken and many times they've led me to something new. Times they've led me to something new and I realized that if I had always gone the same way in this, you know, same restaurant, same way to work, whatever it might be that, I wouldn't have seen this and I wouldn't have stopped and I wouldn't have researched it and I wouldn't have become a part of it. 

18:46
Yeah Well, your story is definitely one about. That definitely emphasizes the importance of taking those detours. Yeah, absolutely. Intro I also had the pleasure of seeing that film at the Washington West Film Festival and it profiles Deirdre Wallenick, who was the oldest woman to climb El Capitan. So I used to rock climb a lot more than I do now, but I'm decently aware of that whole rock climbing world. But I didn't know she was the mother of world-renowned rock climber Alex Honnold. So how did you find her story and can you explain a little bit about how you got into connecting with her and those that you interview in the film? 

19:37 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Yes, I didn't know she was the mother of Alex Honnold either, because they have different last names. And you know it was COVID and I was spending either a lot of time on Netflix or scrolling through Facebook or whatever, like the rest of the world, and one day I was on Facebook and somebody made a posting about her, saying that wow, this woman was 66 and she climbed El Cap. And I was like wow, and I just I was amazed at what the person was saying and I left a comment and all it said was, well, this would make a cool movie. Not really thinking that that's what I was going to do. It was just a comment off the cuff. 

20:22
The next morning, apparently, deirdre read that and she then wrote under my comment are you a filmmaker? And I said, well, yes, I am. And she said I think we need to talk. So that started a three-month Zoom relationship together Wow, where every week we talked for three months, me trying to figure out her story, figuring out if we would be able to work together. You know all the things that go into deciding whether or not you're going to make a film, and you know. And then COVID started to go away and we decided let's do it. So you know, we made the plans and this time I produced it myself as well. Didn't bring on the production company, just hired people as I needed them and went out to California, spent a few days in Yosemite with her, where we met Alex. 

21:22
And she told me she thought he would not want to be seen in the film. She was certain of that. 

21:28
There's no way. 

21:29 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Met him, had some pizza with him, took him aside and said would you do just a little cameo for me? And he's like sure. So she was surprised. I was surprised, very happily, and she introduced me to all of these people ahead of time the ones that you see in the climbing gym that I interview. So I was able to connect with them before I even flew out to California to go through the types of questions I wanted to ask them, and so we had it all set up so that we did part of the interviews in Yosemite, then at her home outside of Sacramento and then in the Sacramento climbing gym. So it worked out really well. We did a one-week shoot. That was it for all three of those places, and I had my fingers crossed that we had what we needed, put our masks back on, got on the plane, came home and started that year-plus-long editing process. 

22:27 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Well, honestly, I think that's great for some of our listeners to hear that you know you could film for a week and edit for a year. It's unbelievable. Exactly it's definitely. And also I'm curious how was it kind of putting the producer hat on for that one and doing that part of it more? I mean, as each new project and each new film? It sounds like you're kind of gathering more skill sets in the filmmaking world. Did you like the producing side of it? I did. 

22:50
Although it felt like it wasn't as creative fun it's more business, you know so it reminded me of work. Gotcha and the things that you have to do to make something work. But it was fine, you know, and it saved me a lot of money in doing it that way and I, you know, I'm pretty good at organizing and managing. Sometimes I wish that I had a little assistant with me to do some of it. 

23:16
Maybe for the next one, yeah yeah, exactly, but you know it worked out fine and it challenged me in a new way, Right yeah? 

23:24 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Yeah, so climbing into life really gets into a lot of Deirdre's life and it isn't solely about her ascent of El Cap. It does have that story in there. But might you try to get that film or even like a shorter edit that focuses more on the climbing into a rock climbing specific festival someday, like Real Rock, for example? 

23:43
Yes, and you know I've been asked that several times actually, and I am yeah, I have actually started talking with Deirdre about that because she is climbing all over the world now. She has not stopped. She's 73 and she's out there climbing all over the US and many places in Europe as well. So I have thought about doing a short short film, you know, not the Oscar-winning film Free Solo, but a short film that really shows what it takes to get from the bottom to the top. 

24:19 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Would you do more footage then, to flesh that out with more than what she's done? 

24:24 - VO (Host)
Oh, yeah, I would. 

24:25 - Candice Bloch (Host)
Well, I'm already excited to see it. So if you do it, I will definitely go see it. Yeah, I would. I encourage everyone to see it if they can. You know, I know it's in festivals now but hopefully it's, you know, accessible to everyone listening at some point. And she, in addition to like just the rock climbing part, I mean she's an accomplished writer, artist, musician, all kinds of stuff and then shifted gears later in life to do these more physical, you know, strength and endurance type activities. So was there something that you found that you could really like relate to that whole new avenue later in life kind of adjustment? 

24:57
Yeah, you know it was interesting that it hit me when I first met her that she and I were on the same path, because I'm a year older than she is I'm 74. She's 73. I became a filmmaker at 65. She's climbed El Cap at 66. We were on the same kind of trajectory and we were able to have conversations about that and what it felt like and what it meant for us as individuals. So I really connected with her on that level. 

25:27
That, you know, it really is never too late to try something new, and you don't have to be an expert at it, you don't have to be the best at it, you just have to do it, challenge yourself. And that's what I was doing with filmmaking, and that's what she was doing with climbing. So it's a really interesting connection there. 

25:48
Yeah, and I mean look what you both have accomplished, so definitely go for it. Beyond 60, as you mentioned, has vignettes of several women older than 60. And you talked about how you've interviewed so many like wonderfully interesting and accomplished women. You yourself have also had, you know, these wonderful decades of life experience. So what advice might you give to someone like anyone, but maybe specifically about when it comes to pursuing your dreams? Past like 30, 40, 50, 60 years old, I would say? 

26:18
make a list of all the things that you've been interested in your entire life, even the ones that sound crazy, like one of mine, for example, was playing a saxophone, but I don't read music. So I kept thinking, well, I'll do the film. As opposed to that, it might take me a while to learn how to read music. So I kept thinking, well, I'll do the film. As opposed to that, it might take me a while to learn how to read music. But I mean, make that list and then challenge yourself and say why didn't I do it? And why couldn't I do it today, and really come up with a list of all the reasons why you couldn't. It could be financial, it could be health reasons, who knows, depending upon what it is, but there's bound to be something on that list that is possible for you to do probably more than one thing on the list and if it's possible, why would you not do it? 

27:06
I believe that all of us have this creativity inside of us that may remain untapped until we die, unless we really dig in and question it. 

27:19
Some people are very lucky and figure that out early, and they become artists and musicians and filmmakers and everything they do to create beauty in the world. But I would say that most people, many people, don't realize that they can take that creativity that's stuck down inside and let it come alive and then start to follow some of those potential dreams and again talk to people. That's one way of talking about it with other people, whether it's your friends, family, therapist whoever it might be, a coach just saying I've always wanted to do this but I never did. And I feel I'm afraid I have fear around making the jump. What can I do to get through that? And with the support of other people, it becomes easier to do. But I mean, with the support of other people, it becomes easier to do. But I mean I would be, I think, on my deathbed, I would be really upset if I hadn't tried to make a film. Yeah, even if I did it and it didn't work out and I moved on to something else, I at least tried it. 

28:28
You know, I think that's the operative word try. 

28:32
Yeah, because you know it's. Yeah, you know it costs nothing. Sometimes, I mean, sometimes it costs a lot financially, but no, it sounds like the. I mean, that's great advice for everything. 

28:46
And you're proof that you stories, because I feel like, personally, a lot of women, especially when they get past a certain age, they don't see as much of people doing as many things represented in media and like representation is a huge part of what we all feel like we can do and what we can accomplish. So I'm really grateful that you're bringing these stories to screen because then it's enabling more people to be like oh my gosh, I just saw the story of this woman tackling that, or starting that third, fourth chapter of her life, or taking on that passion at age 75 or 80. You know, I think that's absolutely inspiring and wonderful and I really appreciate that you're doing that for sort of the world and it's feeding something in yourself as well. So it's like such a wonderful win-win. What do you think is one of like? Do you have a hope for like the positive ripple effects of your films? Is it, you know, to get more people to feel brave enough to do these things? 

29:45 - Melissa Davey (Guest)
Yeah, my goal is to challenge the way people think about aging. You know to really. You sit through the movie and I, you know I've done this with Beyond 60 and now climbing into life, with many, many audiences all over the country and many of those people coming up to me afterwards or writing me an email or calling me and saying saw the film and here's what I did the next day and some of the stories are blowing me away. They were like I didn't think I could do it, but I figured well, you did that, so if you can do that, why am I so afraid? And numerous people have said it inspired them to try something new and it inspired them to make a list of all the things that they wish that they could do. So that's my goal is to really challenge audiences and it seems to be working. 

30:45
So it feels good. It seems like you're also kind of creating potential new stories. It's a domino effect. Each project is kind of bringing people out that are almost bringing amazing new stories directly to you. Yeah, so that's a lucky twist there. It's kind of nice, yeah, and it's so wonderful to see the actual direct positive impact of your work. So I'm glad that you get to see that, because they're great. But, speaking of you know, fly through the air with the greatest of ease. 

31:39
So we actually have a meeting tomorrow and it's a very interesting group of women and a very interesting story. So I am looking at that and I am looking at that as potentially a short and I haven't done a short yet, so that's happening. But I'm also looking at you know, am I going to write a screenplay? And I also have a number of older women who have, like you said, they call you up and they tell you their story and you think, wow, that would make a great film. So I'm in that flex period of trying to get climbing into life off the ground and playing with some ideas on the side here. 

32:18 - Candice Bloch (Host)
That's awesome. Well, it sounds like your list. I mean, I'm sure either you know saxophone or whatever. It sounds like your filmmaking list is also growing and I love that. You're eager to check off. You know a lot of different types and styles and it's wonderful to see what you're doing and that you know. You're clearly flourishing in this field and there's a lot of road ahead, so we're going to hopefully see a lot more from you. Where can people go if they want to learn more about you and your work? 

32:46
To my website, and it's melissadaveycom. All one word melissadaveycom. 

32:52
Okay, we'll put that in the show notes as well. 

32:54
And everything's in there, and they can connect with me through the website. 

32:59
Awesome, and so Beyond 60 is streaming right now, so you can find that in a few different platforms free, and rentals as well, and hopefully, climbing Into Life will be available beyond festivals as well. Thank you so so much, not only for doing what you do and also just as someone you know leaping and pursuing her dreams and setting a good example of doing that, but for creating these wonderful stories for us to see. And, yeah, thank you so much for talking with us today on the podcast. 

33:28
Thank you, I really appreciate it. Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit w-i-f-f-v-vorg. This podcast is created by Sandra Abrams, Candice Block, Brandon Ferry, Tara Jabari and Jerry Reinhart, and edited by Michelle Kim and Inez Perez, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack Audio. That's a wrap.