Ed Sullivan's Legacy of Equality in Netflix's 'Sunday Best' Doc

In this episode, Margo Precht Speciale, granddaughter of Ed Sullivan and producer of the documentary 'Sunday Best,' joins host Candice Bloch to share insights into her film that explores Ed Sullivan's role as a quiet disruptor during the civil rights era. Margo shares her journey of discovering Sullivan’s impact on social justice and about the power of media to shape culture. With a background in archival research and her personal connection to his legacy, Margo brings a unique perspective to the story of her grandfather. The documentary, directed by Sacha Jenkins, is nominated for both an Emmy and Peabody, and highlights the impact of Sulliva’s choices and the cultural significance of his television show. The conversation also explores the process of bringing the documentary to audiences, from assembling the team, to discovering footage gems, to using AI to bring Ed Sullivan’s voice to life in the documentary.

Learn more at: https://www.edsullivan.com/sunday-best-the-untold-story-of-ed-sullivan-streaming-on-netflix/

Watch the documentary on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/82048609

Transcript

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Speaker 1  •  00:10
Welcome to Media Makers Spotlight from Women in Film and Video in Washington, D.C. We bring you conversations with industry professionals for behind the screens, insight and inspiration. 

Speaker 2  •  00:24
Thanks for joining us. I'm your host, Candice Block, and today I'm joined by Margot Precht-Speciale, producer of the Emmy and Peabody-nominated documentary Sunday Best, The Untold Story of Ed Sullivan. Margot began her career as a researcher for documentaries, museum exhibits, and television, and with this archival expertise founded the Maryland-based Archival House MPS Legacy Productions. One of her latest efforts in transforming exhaustive historical research into deeply resonant cinematic narratives is the Sunday Best documentary, which released last July 2025 on Netflix. The doc examines Ed Sullivan's role as a quiet disruptor who leveraged his massive platform to book Black artists and challenge racial barriers during the civil rights era. His entertainment variety show ran for 24 seasons, served as a social catalyst for change, launched countless careers, and left an indelible mark on American history. Margot also happens to be Ed Sullivan's granddaughter, and I'm curious to learn how sharing in Ed's legacy has enriched this project for her. Welcome to the show, Margot. Thank you. Thanks so much for having me. So The Ed Sullivan Show ran from 1948 to 1971, first called The Toast of the Town until 1955 when it switched to just The Ed Sullivan Show. Was there a specific catalyst for producing this documentary now? And what was the lifespan of this project from idea to distribution? 

Speaker 3  •  01:42
Yeah, that's the question. It took 10 years from the inception of the idea to it finally being released on Netflix. So it's not necessarily why now, but it was really based on my own personal legacy. I came up with the idea because I had been involved in film festivals in my hometown. And I really saw the power of telling one's story through documentary films, saw some wonderful films. And I realized that, you know, I really hadn't explored my grandfather's whole life and legacy. and I decided it was time to dive into it and learn more about his life. My mom had recently passed away. So I kind of had that yearning to learn more about myself and where I came from. So that's kind of how it all began. Wonderful. So can you explain more about the choice to make 

Speaker 2  •  02:52
the documentary focused more on the sort of, you know, catalyst for change in the Jim Crow era and 

Speaker 3  •  03:01
not just like an overall biopic? Yeah, there's several layers to that. First thing is that growing up, I knew my grandfather was famous, but I didn't understand really, you know, how he became famous and why he was important. And what would always come up when I researched him were the Beatles and Elvis. And I learned after my mom passed away, when I just started researching his life, that there was this something that was known about his background that even I as his granddaughter was not aware of. And that really helped me, you know, spark the idea because what I learned and what you'll see in Sunday Best is that he gave a national platform to Black artists during an era when most TV networks wouldn't. And that was something I became very proud of learning about him that, you know, it's something that I have stood for, you know, social justice and equality. And it's always been very important to me. And then all of a sudden, there was this through line to what my grandfather stood for. And I just found that story incredibly interesting. And I read this article online that said something about him being some sort of civil rights trailblazer. And I think that's a bit of an overstatement because my grandfather was, like you said, a quiet disruptor. He wasn't an activist, but he did what he believed was right and fair. And it made a difference in American culture because his show was so widely watched. 

Speaker 2  •  05:04
Yeah, I mean, I would argue that you don't have to be loud to be an activist. There's all different styles and levels. So, I mean, he definitely made it definitely because he made conscious decisions for for that and deliberately stood against people saying, well, maybe you shouldn't have this person on. And he was like, no, I'm going to. So, yeah, yeah, I would I would very much say he's an activist, in my opinion. Yeah. 

Speaker 3  •  05:27
Well, that's nice of you to say. But I know that he never saw himself as an activist. Let's just say, yeah, I believe that he really just did what felt right in his heart and what he believed in. 

Speaker 2  •  05:41
Yeah, he's it was a very humble man. It came across in the documentary as well. And I did like that it showed that, you know, he had these these beliefs about equality and all of that going. back to even beginning in sports as a writer and a columnist and all these different things. So I like that he was able to take that to the next level by getting this show, which it also is shown that he wasn't seeking that. He wasn't seeking the spotlight in any way, which goes with his personality, as you were saying, but then used it the way that he felt was right. And I think that 

Speaker 3  •  06:14
was really awesome to see. Yeah. Candice, what I will say about that, it was really important. When I first found this story, to look back on his history, and I discovered this one article that he wrote going back to 1929, where he really stood up in sports for something that he felt was not right. It was NYU was going to bench one of their players, their black players when they played against Georgia. And my grandfather was just disgusted by that. And he was he didn't hold back with how he felt in that article. And he just thought it was wrong. He said it was wrong. So that's where I realized this is something, you're right, that went back a long way. I learned later it was really how he was raised through his parents. And he also came from an Irish family. And the Irish, when they immigrated, were treated like second-class citizens and were discriminated against. So he felt a connection to the discrimination that black sports stars, later entertainers, you know, what they were going through. So there was that empathy. 

Speaker 2  •  07:45
So the documentary is pretty concise. It's only an hour and a half long. Was there more story that you wanted to tell or may eventually tell? Like, what was the decision to keep it as a one hour and a half one off? 

Speaker 3  •  07:58
Personally, I think a lot of documentaries go too long. because people have trouble editing because it's their work and they want to tell the whole story. But I worked with a great team at Delirio Films. We had wonderful editors and we felt, you know, it was important to tell the story and have it flow, you know, not quickly, but just have it flow the way that would be comfortable for, you know, your audience today to watch it. Of course, there were parts, there were some great parts that we had to cut out. And I was, you know, secretly wishing that we would have those, you know, the one, the scenes that we had to cut out kind of in the back and people could go watch those later if they wanted to, but that didn't work out. 

Speaker 2  •  09:00
Even like extras, like a DVD extras from back in the day? 

Speaker 3  •  09:05
Yeah, there were some other really great stories that I wish we could have included, but it would have gone on too long. 

Speaker 1  •  09:13
And we didn't want people to get bored. 

Speaker 3  •  09:15
We wanted people to stay engaged. And that is what you have to do as a filmmaker. And I think it's very hard for a lot of documentary filmmakers to do that. 

Speaker 2  •  09:26
Yeah, that's that's a common thread. We hear a lot. You know, there's a lot of a lot of things that you have to part with that you that you don't really want to. I know speaking of that, that you got some great interviews for this documentary, but obviously you could keep going, as you said, and maybe try to get other people. Could you speak to at what point you kind of stopped the researching and gathering of new material and interviews and just decide to complete that story arc and start editing? Was it like meeting a release deadline or something or just you felt it was right? 

Speaker 3  •  10:02
No. At first, we really had intended for the documentary to be purely archival. And to have my grandfather, you know, tell his own story. But we realized, you know, that wasn't really working for what we had. And we were able to get some great interviews. And I think they ended up only enhancing what we had. So the interviews actually, besides the Harry Belafonte interview, the other interviews came much later. And again, it was a 10-year process. So I would say the first five years was pure research, but also getting all the pieces and packaging the film with the right team. We had an amazing director that really believed this story was an important one to tell because he really felt strongly about being a white ally and how that's important to the Black experience to have people like my grandfather who were there. So Sasha Jenkins just, you know, put his heart and soul behind it and he carried it through. And I think Sasha was the one who really ultimately decided, let's get more interviews. So, yeah. 

Speaker 2  •  11:34
Awesome. Yeah, it's always interesting hearing, especially how like the teams come together for different projects. I am curious with your background in archival, you have a separate archival producer for this and you're one of the producers on it. Can you talk about kind of not leaning into the research part as much and deciding to pivot to be a producer on this? 

Speaker 3  •  11:56
Honestly, I did both. I couldn't help myself. No, I did both. It's actually, I learned a lot from the archival producers on the film. They taught me a lot. They were great. And they've also become great mentors to me now as I pursue this more. But they were great at finding the material, but I was always looking and kind of diving as deep as I could to find clues from other documents that would lead us to new material. And, you know, there's an interview with my grandfather that nobody had ever seen since it had aired, the one from Canada, which was wonderful. He was very relaxed and thoughtful. And I think it's one of the highlights of the film. So, you know, we were able to find great material and we just had like, I can't even say the whole packaging of the team. We just really went top shelf. Yeah. Like the producer writer Mark Monroe has received, you know, several Oscars for his work, Delirio Films. They've been recognized many times over. And of course, I can't say enough about Sasha Jenkins and, you know, his experience as a journalist, too. And I think that's the other reason he really related to my grandfather is he was a journalist, a very different type of journalist. He was a journalist who kind of recorded pop culture and hip hop and all of that. So there was this really interesting mix of people that brought it all together. 

Speaker 2  •  13:47
Awesome. Well, yeah, it's a wonderful piece. I've seen it. I recommend everyone go check it out. You mentioned earlier about having your grandfather narrate as well. Obviously, he's not around anymore. Can you speak to, you mentioned, like, there's an opening of the documentary that points out that, like, you'll hear a voice, but it's just taken from his, like, articles and journals and things like that. Who did that voice? I didn't see it in the credits. 

Speaker 3  •  14:16
Yeah. Well, it's interesting. It was an idea. That idea came to me way before any of us were really aware of AI in the media. I had been listening to a podcast. And they were talking about this AI and what it can do. And one of the uses was that it was able to record people's voices before they had to, you know, some people will lose their voice. because of cancer or a medical reason and how that causes a real disconnect with their identity and how AI was this wonderful discovery that could help, you know, bridge that gap. And I was listening to it. And at the same time, we were thinking about who should we have narrate the film? And I thought, well, wouldn't it be really cool if we could gather, my grandfather was very heavily recorded. Right. We could gather examples of his voice and use AI to study that and be able to replicate it in the film. I will say that it's not all AI in the film because we mixed it. It was him talking in different interviews. And then for his writings where we didn't have his voice, we took those pieces and we were able to have AI recreate his voice there. I feel it brought a very personal level to the film that maybe it wouldn't have had if somebody else narrated it. As for me, I really enjoyed hearing his voice. I know people are against it and using AI in any form. But I think if it's used the right way and the family is a part of it and approves it, it's different. You know, it depends how it's being used. 

Speaker 2  •  16:33
No, I understand. It's like conscious and consenting is different to use it as a tool strategically as opposed to just saying, blanket, you do it, you know? 

Speaker 3  •  16:42
And we weren't trying to trick people. That's why we put the disclaimer up front. We didn't want people to discover afterwards, oh, that wasn't his voice. It was AI because that becomes a different story and distracts from what we had. So, yeah, I really loved it. I will tell you, my siblings really liked it. They were all amazed with how much it sounded like him. And you asked where it was done. It was a firm from that was actually in the Ukraine and it was during the war. And and when that all was going on and for a while, we were concerned because all the equipment and everything was there that, you know, obviously we were concerned about what they were going through and, you know, how how that would affect what we were trying to do with them as a business. So anyway, it all worked out, thankfully. But they were credited for doing a lot of the early AI voice work. 

Speaker 2  •  17:52
Yeah. I mean, even as you mentioned with like people losing their voice and there's I think there are definitely applications when it is it's better, you know, and then there's there's a time and a place and there are it is a it is a interesting and valuable tool that can be that can be wielded responsibly. And I think that's really just what people want is like conscious and and very like considered use of it rather than just using it too much. But I thought that was interesting. I suspected that might have been it because I was like, I didn't see anyone saying that. And, you know, I've, you know, we've all we're all learning these new tools. 

Speaker 3  •  18:26
Yeah, you're learning the best way to do it. And we were conscious of some of the criticism that was starting to happen because we honestly thought our film was going to be the first film out that even used that technology. But since the film took as long as it did to come out, there were a few others like the Anthony Bourdain film came out and it was highly criticized because the family didn't even know. Oh, see, yeah. You all knew and approved and liked it. Yeah, we did. And it was my idea. It was 100%. I take all the credit or all the blame. You know, it was my idea. So when you put it in context and I'm the one who presented it to our director and our production company. So, yeah. 

Speaker 2  •  19:15
Yeah. Well, I thought it was very tastefully done in this. So it really did enhance. It makes it an interesting, like a special glimpse into things as well. So the documentary also talks about how like Ed would personally scout a lot of the acts. And can you talk about, I mean, obviously nowadays going to see some of these, if you're the host of a show, might not be as doable in this paparazzi era. Can you speak to how powerful it was that he hand chose everyone who appeared on the show? 

Speaker 3  •  19:45
Yeah, well, it was a very different time back in the 1940s when it first started. I think a lot of people don't realize that my grandfather produced the show, originally with Marlo Lewis and later with my father, Bob Precht. But back then, my grandfather, before he was on television, he was a journalist. He had his own column in the New York papers. He first covered entertainment and later covered sports and then back to Broadway. But he had amazing connections. And he was out on the town every single night until the wee hours. He called it Dawn, Dawn, as in D-A-W-N, Patrol. Oh, nice. Yeah, he even wrote articles about Dawn Patrol because he knew everyone who was anyone in the entertainment industry and he loved vaudeville. And back then, when he was still a journalist, he started producing shows as well. And he produced a show back in the 1940s called The Harlem Cavalcade. 

Speaker 2  •  20:59
It is a mouthful. It's an interesting choice for a title. 

Speaker 3  •  21:02
Yeah. Well, I think it was a common term back then. But yes, anyway, he he had those connections and he just was the man that, you know, people would go to to get publicities for their shows and all of that. So it was very much a natural choice for him to become the producer and the emcee of the Ed Sullivan show. He was not an actor. He was not a comedian. He was not in entertainment in any way. He was behind the scenes. And no one, I don't think you can think of hardly, like no one who has their own nighttime television show, like the Ed Sullivan Show and what came afterwards. All those people were comedians or they had entertainment experience. And that's why my grandfather, I think, came across as awkward as he did. But his job, he felt his job was not to be on, on, you know, stage. It was to make the introductions and get off as fast as possible and let the talent, you know, do their talents, whatever it may be. It was an interesting choice, but in a way it made a lot of sense. Yeah. I mean, it's also, you can tell how much, 

Speaker 2  •  22:22
obviously that he wants them to shine, that it's about them. And it was really great to see that he he brought people on from all over. So, I mean, this documentary focuses primarily on the Black entertainers and what that meant for the culture and community and the era. But yeah, he brought people on from all over the world. It wasn't just singers, you know. I know even when talking about this interview coming up and researching it a bit, I know lots of people in my life that watched the show. It's a little before my time, but I obviously knew of it and know, you know, and have seen 

Speaker 1  •  22:56
pieces from it. There's so many iconic moments from it that like everyone knows about it. 

Speaker 2  •  23:01
But yeah, I think it was so great that, you know, entertain comedians, actors, even one of Yeah, from all over the world. And one of the topo GGO was some favorites for especially younger 

Speaker 3  •  23:16
people. And he wasn't just a television host. He was became this cultural gatekeeper who helped shape American identity during this pivotal time in our history. Yeah, definitely. And he maintained 

Speaker 2  •  23:31
he was friends with many or became good friends with many of the people he had on the show, which I think really shows like the respect that kind of runs deeper than just, hey, here's the platform. That's it. And he actually truly really liked them. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was wonderful 

Speaker 3  •  23:45
to see. Relationships were very important to him. And that also comes across with, you know, him choosing these acts. You know, he got to know people. He got to know who they were at the core, and he cared, and he asked questions about their families. That all comes across. He was very authentic, I would say, in his personality. He was never trying to be this, you know, great big, you know, personality on television. He was just a regular guy and people I've read, you know, kind of felt like he was their favorite uncle. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, definitely 

Speaker 2  •  24:34
anyone alive when the show was on pretty much like that, they would gather to watch that. And But you had mentioned also your dad being a producer on the show. So being the granddaughter of Ed Sullivan and daughter of one of the show's producers, I'm sure growing up you probably heard plenty of stories from when the show was on. But in your research, was there anything that you found discovered that was particularly surprising or interesting that you hadn't known about? 

Speaker 3  •  25:05
Oh, so much, honestly. I mean, the Ed Sullivan show was part of our life. obviously it it you know it couldn't not be we lived in new york my dad produced the show my mom was ed and sylvia's only child um they adored their grandchildren i was the youngest of the five it just um was part of our story from the get-go but it wasn't until i did this documentary that I really learned who my grandfather was as a person. What an amazing writer he was. He never went to college. He had a column in the New York Daily News for over 40 years, and especially his earlier articles were some of the most beautiful writing and observations that he made. And that's something I was not aware of in any way, like how talented he was as a writer. But yeah, there's the list just goes on. I mean, the whole discovery I made about how he supported equality for the sports stars of the time, how he helped Jackie Robinson during the time he was trying to, you know, break into baseball and onto the white teams. He really supported him. And he made a lot of racket in his columns that Jackie Robinson said helped him, you know, break that color line. He actually gave my grandfather credit, which blew my mind. Yeah. Wow. And so proud. Right. Like, yeah, that's the other thing. I, I never really was proud of my connection to Ed Sullivan, because growing up, what I heard was the stories about the Beatles. And I'm like, so yeah, he introduced the Beatles. That's great. I love the Beatles. But it's also people would make fun of his persona all the time. And when I was younger, people would just always want to give me their very best Ed Sullivan impersonations. And it just made me power. Like, I just, I'm like, can you just stop making fun of him, please? And, you know, it's just, I didn't know who he was. He was this caricature besides my grandpa, who I thought was a very normal, wonderful man who would come to our home all the time. But why it just bothered me that people would make fun of him so much. So learning all of this just opened this whole new world to me and something I could really grab onto and feel proud of and want to share. And that's why, you know, I really wanted to tell this story. 

Speaker 2  •  28:16
Yeah, it's wonderful that you have because it also helps, you know, as you said, you even as a member of his family didn't know all of this necessarily. And I think it's really wonderful to bring that to the forefront, especially now, and remind people of the power of media and, you know, the representation of what we see and who we see and what that can do. And so I really appreciate that you made this documentary. And I'm glad to hear that it makes you even more proud of your legacy. And I love that as journalists and researchers, you're all kind of in the same vein of kind of like digging through stories. Yeah, yeah. Information and findings. 

Speaker 3  •  28:56
Yeah, and getting the facts, right? And getting the story right. You know, he was a newspaper man at heart, but he believed in giving people a voice and in lifting up the culture and showing America what it really looked like and sounded like. And how could you not be proud of that? 

Speaker 2  •  29:17
Exactly. So you had also I mean, you've done all of this research. You are a big researcher. That's I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit more about your company, MPS Legacy Productions. 

Speaker 3  •  29:29
This documentary really took most of my time for over 10 years. But during that process, and even before, I've always been drawn to history and research. And I got involved in doing other research for other documentaries. And it's just been really a wonderful experience being part of a documentary team and helping producers tell the story because they really rely on the researchers and the archival producers to provide them with the information and the facts. They might have a general outline a lot of times of these historical stories, but it's really kind of digging deeper and getting the details that people might not necessarily know, because that's what makes these films interesting. 

Speaker 2  •  30:27
Yeah. So that led you to want to kind of provide this service for others? 

Speaker 3  •  30:32
Yeah. I mean, basically, and I work on other documentaries and it's usually just word of mouth. You know, it's not like I advertise what I do. I really just rely on, you know, my good reputation to find me the next opportunity. And right now I'm working on a documentary that's been really interesting. And it's something that, you know, I hope comes to be, but they're still trying to figure out funding. So, you know, I work on a lot of different things. I've also worked on museum exhibits and a variety of other projects. So it's rewarding and it's nice at this stage in my life that I can kind of do what I want to do, pick the projects I want to work on and also have time to be with my family. 

Speaker 2  •  31:31
Yeah, no, it's wonderful. And yeah, it's a boutique company, which I love is a nice way to say. And as, you know, Women in Film and Video, we're based in D.C. and, you know, we serve the Mid-Atlantic. So we love a Maryland-based. 

Speaker 3  •  31:45
Well, I love you guys. You know, when I first came up with this idea, I spoke to your director very early on who gave me some wonderful guidance. 

Speaker 1  •  31:55
Oh, awesome. 

Speaker 3  •  31:56
Yeah. And I think it's great. And I was happy to find you all and think you provide a great service. And I love how you're reaching out more in terms of like this podcast and social media. I think you all do great work. 

Speaker 2  •  32:14
Awesome. Thank you so much. And just I know you mentioned briefly a festival near your hometown. Is that the Annapolis Film Festival? Can you share a little of your involvement with them? 

Speaker 3  •  32:25
Oh, well, I was involved in the early years. I think going on over 10 years, I think. I now just really go and enjoy the films there. But from the very beginning of starting the film Festival, I, you know, helped with marketing and advertising and events for them. 

Speaker 2  •  32:49
Awesome. Well, and it helped, as you said, spark the idea for this amazing project. 

Speaker 3  •  32:55
Yeah. And I will add the people I met there also helped spark the idea because I was lucky enough to meet Ambassador Shabazz, which was Malcolm X's daughter, and Suzanne Kay, Diane Carroll's daughter there through the Annapolis Film Festival. And when I came up with this idea, I remember having, you know, lunch with them there and talking to them and asking them if, you know, what they thought, you know, because when I first met Ambassador Shabazz, she was so kind to me. And I was impressed meeting her, but she acted like she was more impressed meeting me because she had such fond memories of her family sitting around the television and watching the Ed Sullivan show. So we just bonded up, you know, very quickly on all of that. And same with Suzanne. You know, they were great support to the project from the get-go. 

Speaker 2  •  33:58
That's awesome. And it's just, yeah, it's so wonderful to firsthand get to know the impact, but then also be able to share that with other people who might not have known. What do you think people, what do you want them to take away from watching the documentary? I mean, I know it's a big kind of common question, but it seems like there's, it really shows sort of, it's within the world of media as well. 

Speaker 3  •  34:20
Well, I think my grandfather's legacy is more about introducing the Beatles and Elvis, and it was about integrity and courage and using his power to make space for others. 

Speaker 2  •  34:35
Yeah, and hopefully serves as a good reminder to other people that they can do the same. 

Speaker 3  •  34:39
A hundred percent. I feel like his story, I hope, will be an example to other people that you don't have to necessarily, you know, be loud. You can be, you know, a quiet disruptor in whatever you do to help make a difference in the world. 

Speaker 2  •  35:08
Wonderful. Well, Sunday Best, The Untold Story of Ed Sullivan is available on Netflix. Definitely go check it out. Good luck with all the MEP body stuff, fingers crossed. And where can people find out about your if you want people to find out more about MPS or and then go to my website? 

Speaker 3  •  35:28
It's npslegacyproductions.com, just spelled out. Or you could even go to edsullivandoc.com and that will get you there. And you can learn a little bit more about me and the documentary and see some photos and some memorabilia, which is fun. 

Speaker 2  •  35:49
Yeah, a tiny bit of those extras, you know. 

Speaker 3  •  35:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. no um it it's it's been a wonderful experience all around and my grandfather it was just announced after my grandfather was nominated or that Sunday Best was nominated for Peabody and Emmy within the next week we learned that he is being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame after all these years and the documentary has really kind of helped bring his story back to you know, people. So people realize what, what a tremendous impact he made. So yeah, we're very proud about that as well. Well, what a very well-deserved honor. And yeah, 

Speaker 2  •  36:36
thank you so much for making the documentary and for talking with us today about it and good luck 

Speaker 1  •  36:39
with all your future projects. And thank you so much. I appreciate it. Thanks for your time. Thanks for listening to Media Maker Spotlight from Women in Film and Video. To learn more about WIF, visit W, I, F as in Frank, V as in Victor.org. This podcast is created by Sandra Abrams, Tara Jabari, Candice Block, and Brandon Ferry, and edited by Michelle Kim, with audio production and mix by Steve Lack, audio, and Ed Saltzman. Subscribe to continue learning from more amazing media makers. Please visit mediamakerspotlight.com for more information. That's a wrap!